Over-Moderation

[crosscountry]

I can't post this in the appropriate forum, but I want to call attention to Swift's actions here

BAUT banned/suspended posters log


I already thought this board was overmoderated, now I'm 100% convinced. Someone please take away Swift's power.

The guy in question, who I've never met nor care about, was being polite as could be IMO. I watch the banned/suspended poster's log for abuses such as this. Why has it gone so far as to ban someone who hasn't even broken the rules?

[crosscountry]

in case it's deleted

Originally Posted by mmfiore
Hey you are the moderator if you don't like that I put up a fight shut down the thread. But in doing so you admit that your ego just does not like to be challenged and your way of handling it is to silence the opposition. Do as you will.

Originally Posted by Swift
Tusenfem is in this thread as a participant. And what they posted is perfectly acceptable. I, on the other hand, am here to moderate, and that kind of attitude is not acceptable around here. Please take the next 24 hours to read the rules and to particularly become familiar with what is expected of advocates of ATM ideas, such as answering questions put to them. And if you believe there are problems with other members' posts, such as they are being rude, do not debate it in thread, but use the red report triangle.

[crosscountry]

we ask people to defend their ATM ideas and ban them when the don't answer the questions - now we ban them when they do answer the questions. This is ridiculous.

[antoniseb]

Concerning Swift, he acted after there had been some discussion of mmfiore's behavior. It is our hope that mmfiore will read the rules, and follow local customs here. He/she seems like they will be an asset to the community. The one day suspension is not a ban.

[BetaDust]

Originally Posted by antoniseb

Concerning Swift, he acted after there had been some discussion of mmfiore's behavior. It is our hope that mmfiore will read the rules, and follow local customs here. He/she seems like they will be an asset to the community. The one day suspension is not a ban.

But it does take one day; out of his 30, for proposing his UFT over there in ATM.

[tusenfem]

Dear crosscountry why would ANYTHING be deleted? Do you think we have something to hide? I would be highly insulted if my message, mmfiore's or swift's message would be deleted and quit the board.

mmfiore got rather agitated by my message to him where I state (as a participant, not as moderator, because then it would be in red and I tend not to moderete threads in which I am a participant however small) that after 8 pages of thread, he has not shown anything about his Super relativity idea that is in any way convincing that it has any merit. Fortis is mainly on this. Instead of replying to my complaints, he feels attacked by me mentioning that I do not see any reason for that whole thread.

Maybe I should not have mentioned that?
Maybe mmfiore feels that I am right but does not want it true.

Anyway, I still feel the same.

Originally Posted by crosscountry

we ask people to defend their ATM ideas and ban them when the don't answer the questions - now we ban them when they do answer the questions. This is ridiculous.

We only ban/suspend people when they do not answer direct questions. An answer "i do not know" is a valid answer. mmfiore was not banned because he "answered the question" but because his behaviour, for which he has been warned before.
here (before I was a participant)
here
here
And that is only in this thread.
And then we apparently let this message just pass by.

And whether mmfiore really answers the question is a matter of debate, it took several tries by Fortis to get mmfiore to acknowledge that he cannot "predict" masses of particles if he cannot use the mass of said particle as an input parameter!!

So, over-moderation? I don't think so.

[01101001]

Please stop the flagrant under-moderation.

Thank you.

[Gillianren]

So, wait. I went back and read that when the suspension was instituted. Someone was really rude, and they got suspended for it. What's the problem here?

[Comet Dust]

I have (until now) refrained from joining this board because of the police-state atmosphere about it. I have seen many instances of moderation so heavy handed I had difficulty believing my eyes. This is not one of those instances.

[HenrikOlsen]

BTW, remember that had this been a police state, crosscountry probably wouldn't have dared post that critique.

I know several boards where he'd have been banned and the thread deleted without trace or comment.

[crosscountry]

I admit not knowing the full story, but going on what evidence was presented, I saw the allegation as trumped up at best.

[MessengerM104]

The YouTube experience has tought me to (generally) appreciate at least some policing/community-guidline-enforcing as a service (not specifically speaking about the local habits).
With a scientific site you must expect to draw a public with low latent inhibition (and some inclination for the empiric method) that might be given to test the waters and possibly limits - so there better be some!
(out of principle (and probably owing to our European upbringing) we are against the capital punishment)

[nauthiz]

I don't see why the moderation here is reminiscent of a police state any more than many science journals' policy of not running any submissions that don't meet certain academic and etiquette standards is.

An internet (or print) forum and a government are very, very, very, very, very different contexts.

[Gillianren]

It's hard for me to take accusations of this being a police state seriously given that I just received mail from an admin in which he called himself a dork.

[pzkpfw]

Right Gillian - banned for revealing information from a private communication!

(No, that mail wasn't from me, but yes, I am also a dork (according to my daughter - and I trust her opinion)).

[Moose]

Heh. Over-moderation. The old BABB's policy was one warning for any rules violation (except for the "hanging" offenses like spamming or socks.) No suspensions, no second warnings. One warning only.

You could be sure that regular BABBers (the surviving ones, anyway) had polished their manners to a _very_ fine gleam.

I miss that sometimes.

[korjik]

I have to say that I dont find BAUT to be over-policed. I see too many places where insults and flame wars are the SOP, so I like a place where some decorum is enforced. mmfiore got a bit rude and got a day off. No biggy.

[crosscountry]

Sure, I agree completely that "some decorum is enforced" is nice, but there is a point where it's no longer nice and starts to be over done. I wasn't the one that said police state, and I never implied that.

Moose, I don't see where mmfiore broke any rules, and I didn't even read what he read as rude.

[captain swoop]

Hey you are the moderator if you don't like that I put up a fight shut down the thread. But in doing so you admit that your ego just does not like to be challenged and your way of handling it is to silence the opposition. Do as you will.

You don't see that as rude?

[Jeff Root]

I don't see that as rude if he believed what he was saying. If it were
true, his comments would be justified, and being suspended for stating
an important, relevant truth is strong supporting evidence that he was
right. If he didn't believe what he was saying, then it was much worse
than rude, and he doesn't belong here.

-- Jeff, in Minneapolis

[captain swoop]

There is also the fact that he should have reported rather than commenting in the thread. It all goes to establish a pattern. 24 hours to think about the rules isn't 'over moderation' in my opinion.

People aren't suspended on a whim by a lone moderator, there is always discussion and past behaviour and posting is taken into consideration. (as we always stress in these type of threads)

[pzkpfw]

Further, the actions of a moderator have been undone in the past, if (for example) discussion shows they might have been too harsh.

This has always been taken well by whichever moderator had his or her action altered.

---

That post "your way of handling it is to silence the opposition" is just so way off it's almost like the post was about a different forum and was posted here by accident.

[crosscountry]

Originally Posted by captain swoop

You don't see that as rude?

not in the slightest. I found his tone quite even and emotionless, rational.


You'll have to go back and read more (as I do) to get the full discussion.

[Tucson_Tim]

Over-moderation? I don't think so. Unless, of course, you compare BAUT to the sites where name calling (and much, much worse) is common-place. I see BAUT as an oasis of sanity and proper behavior, surrounded by the sewer that is most of the internet. BAUT is a place where children can post and see adults conversing, yes, even arguing, in a civil manner. BAUT definitely is the 10% defined by Sturgeon's Law.

When warning or suspending someone, do I think the moderators are correct every time? No. Most of the time? Yes. I have reported moderators when I thought they were wrong -- but I've done it using the proper method defined by the rules: the small report triangle.

[crosscountry]

Originally Posted by Tucson_Tim

When warning or suspending someone, do I think the moderators are correct every time? No. Most of the time? Yes. I have reported moderators when I thought they were wrong -- but I've done it using the proper method defined by the rules: the small report triangle.

I guess I should look that up and try that next time.

[01101001]

Originally Posted by crosscountry

I guess I should look that up and try that next time.

How's this more public method working out for you?

[gzhpcu]

All you need to do is be polite and never let yourself get provoked.

[Gillianren]

I read the context, too; I thought it was rude, and I thought at least one more post following it was rude. I also happen to know, based on what people have said, that some people don't bother reading the rules and then get upset when they get suspended for a violation. Isn't that rude, too?

[J Chrysostom]

Hello YourImaginaryFriend, pleased to meet you. I'd introduce myself, but I don't think you will be here for very long.

[01101001]

Originally Posted by J Chrysostom

Hello YourImaginaryFriend, pleased to meet you. I'd introduce myself, but I don't think you will be here for very long.

And, poof, YourImaginaryFriend disappears, along with all bawdy comments made.

That's why it's better to just report such via the red triangle icon instead of attempting to interact.