BAUT moderation now using infraction system - discuss

[Swift]

Originally Posted by TheHalcyonYear

So, so I understand correctly here? If I have accumulated enough points and go over the top I could be permanently banned, but if I were to wait a few days and let some points drop off my record, I would be ok?

Other than being more formalized, that is no different than current practice. When deciding upon the punishment for a rules violation, the fact that the person's last offense was 2 days ago, 6 months ago, or never, makes a big difference. And yes, that does include things such as warnings, not just suspensions. That is why most moderators make particular note when we say things like "this is an official warning". Now it get noted in appropriate places in the moderation spaces - under the new system, it would be noted with an infraction point.

[01101001]

Originally Posted by Frog march

I would rather the driver of a bus have his hands directly on the steering wheel, rather than award points as to how much left, or right the wheel should be turned.

It's fly-by-wire. Trust the software. Or at least trust that moderators can undo software mistakes.

It was fly-by-wire before, but there was less software then.

[NickW]

I'll be a moderator punching bag if needed.

[slang]

Originally Posted by Frog march

I would rather the driver of a bus have his hands directly on the steering wheel, rather than award points as to how much left, or right the wheel should be turned.

Ooh, analogy breaking! Love it Compare it to a modern bus backing up radar, giving a beeping warning that the driver approaches an obstacle. The driver still decides at that point whether he continues driving backwards (adds infraction points), or whether he steps on the brake (decide to send PM notice, or a "<cough> with a <frown>" remark in the thread without further consequences).

[Swift]

Originally Posted by 01101001

It's fly-by-wire. Trust the software. Or at least trust that moderators can undo software mistakes.

It was fly-by-wire before, but there was less software then.

With my luck, I'll be ready to give out the first infraction, but I'll miss the airport by 150 miles and not communicate the infraction for an hour.

[Moose]

Besides, even buses have power steering. The driver still makes the decisions, but the bus handles the details.

[Neverfly]

Originally Posted by NickW

I'll be a moderator punching bag if needed.

<Takes crown off his head and plops it on Nicks pate.>

You're it; I quit.

<poof!>

[nauthiz]

Originally Posted by Frog march

that's what I mean; Mods can control what is happening anyway, but one stage removed....what's wrong with the mods having the final say, directly?

I think the only way any mod wouldn't effectively be having a direct say in the outcome is if that mod has extremely poor arithmetic skills.

[Chuck]

The first point is free, though, right? No ill effects? I'm going to auction mine off on eBay.

[Swift]

Originally Posted by nauthiz

I think the only way any mod wouldn't effectively be having a direct say in the outcome is if that mod has extremely poor arithmetic skills.

That's why the system only goes up to twelve points. After that, I'd have to take off my shoes.

[NickW]

And the infractions can't be viewed by the public, right? I do see where they are in my control panel though.

[Tog_]

I don't see yours anywhere, so I think it's only visible to you. After they expire, they seem to stick around and show as expired.

[Moose]

Yup. Only you (and the mod team) can see your infractions.

[NickW]

Thanks, Moose.

[davidlpf]

Originally Posted by Neverfly

Well, I'm screwed.

Nothing new then.

[TheHalcyonYear]

Originally Posted by Neverfly

Well, I'm screwed.

Yeah, but we'll miss you

Hey cheer up Neverfly, there are some very distinguished names on the list of permanently banned posters.

[Swift]

I think (hope?) that people are joking. But I honestly don't see this change as making it more (or less) likely that people are suspended or banned.

One of the many complaints that we have received about moderation is that it is inconsistent, because of the use of human moderators who make judgment calls. This system doesn't really change that, since a moderator still needs to make a decision on if there is an infraction and how severe it is. But on the flip side, once that decision is made, the punishment (number of points) will be consistent.

[NickW]

I have no problem with the points system. It won't alleviate all the problems, and there is no system that will, but it looks like one more step forward.

[davidlpf]

I was just joking.

[slang]

So now the "banned by BAUT" badge of merit can be accompanied by an actual screenshot of all the accomplishments.

[NickW]

Do we have a new Xbox game in the making?

"Banned by BAUT"
Now with trophy support.
Brought to you by BAUT!

ETA:ETA: Yes I know, the trophy system is for PS3, but it sounded better

[mugaliens]

Outstanding! And yes, I suspect it'll require a good bit of tweaking. Mine did, as our estimates of what the values sould be were seriously off. You initial estimates are similar to my initial estimates.

For objectivity sake, you may wish to consider assigning a point value for each rule, with a mod/admin discretion variance based on the severity. For example, Rule 2 violations (civility and decorum) could be 3 pts -2/+5. This would prevent a perma-ban for even a really bad hair day, but would allow it if prior points had been accumulated.

We did this as a six-month aftermeasure and posted it in the rules. It quelled some objections. Your straight forward approach does much the same, though, so I'm curious to see how this works out.

Will you also be continuing the BAUT banned/suspended posters log, so the rest of us can see, in one location, why other users are being banned/suspended?

I've found that quite useful, reviewing that immediately after entering BAUT, as it helps me to be mindful of the admin/moderator mindset with respect to what's appropriate, what's skirting the edge, and what's verbotten. In fact, as I've been on so many different boards, with so many varying rules and variations in enforcement thereof, I've found reviewing the log to be vital in terms of "regaging my gyros" to ensure I make that mental adjustment required to remain within BAUT's rules.

I think of it as switching airframes, each of which may have seriously different envelopes. It's always a great idea to review the performance capabilities (envelope) of whatever aircraft you're flying that day! Helps prevent things like stalls, spins, and crashes.

[Swift]

As David Letterman says about Stupid Human Tricks, no betting.

[kleindoofy]

Originally Posted by ToSeek

If anyone would like to receive a zero-point infraction that expires after an hour, just to see what it looks like from the receiving end, let us know. ...

Can we earn it?

[davidlpf]

Maybe give then some ribbons and medals as well.

[Moose]

Originally Posted by mugaliens

Will you also be continuing the BAUT banned/suspended posters log, so the rest of us can see, in one location, why other users are being banned/suspended?

There's no danger of losing the Log anytime soon. It's too useful a tool.

[TheHalcyonYear]

Originally Posted by Swift

I think (hope?) that people are joking. But I honestly don't see this change as making it more (or less) likely that people are suspended or banned.

One of the many complaints that we have received about moderation is that it is inconsistent, because of the use of human moderators who make judgment calls. This system doesn't really change that, since a moderator still needs to make a decision on if there is an infraction and how severe it is. But on the flip side, once that decision is made, the punishment (number of points) will be consistent.

Actually I approve. Consistency was the point that I was attempting to make when I got blasted out of the "censorship" thread by people who felt that I wouldn't happy with anything less than "omniscient moderators"^*. Actually I think that, while imperfect, the plan systematizes application of the rules in a way makes it easy for the moderators to collaborate

and still get their homework done for school.

I think this shows that there are solutions to the issues here and that people aren't just looking to beat-up upon moderators.



^*Copyright by Halcyon Inc.



Oh yeah and since the mods were concerned about whether people were kidding about possible bannings; so, I was only kidding Neverfly, we won't really miss you.

[StevoR]

Originally Posted by Tog_

Cool it shows up in the user control panel too. That way people that get then can see when they expire.

Edit: There is now an infraction tab on my profile too. Can that be seen by everyone?

I've just checked and couldn't see anything about it on your profile - but then I may have visited after it expired, I'm not sure.

[StevoR]

Originally Posted by Moose

Yup. Only you (and the mod team) can see your infractions.

Now I find out. Sigh.

As for this new system - yeah. It make sense although it'd be good if we got an email about too.

Sometimes I'm not sure whether I'm doing the right thing here or not. I do get a bit carried away on occassion and have my good and bad days so I also second the concern that on a bad day I may rack up a lot of points in a hurry without necessarily even realising I've done so until afterwards.

There's that old "Hmm ..should I really have said /sent that" ten minutes or a few hours later syndrome. :-(

A bit of forebearance and accepting that I'm (or somebody else) may be having a bad day or getting caught up in a 'hot button' debate can go along way here methinks.

PS. I guess sometimes I tend to post when I'm tired too & thus not at my best. Imagine I'm not alone in that. You could say that I should post only when I'm not tired but then I'd probably hardly get the chance to post much at all!

[violentquaker]

Originally Posted by ToSeek

If anyone would like to receive a zero-point infraction that expires after an hour, just to see what it looks like from the receiving end, let us know. We have a test one in the system that most of the moderators have experienced already.

I'll take a -1 point infraction if you please; I need to save up for the World Series in case the Phillies lose.