BAUT moderation now using infraction system - discuss

[ToSeek]

We're going to start using vBulletin's infraction system to administer discipline on the forum. This should be easier on the moderators as well as provide more consistency in how it is administered. A quick overview follows:

Users committing a rule violation receive a certain number of points based on that violation and the number of previous offenses. If the number of points exceeds a certain threshold, they will be automatically suspended or banned based on the threshold exceeded. The basic numbers are as follows: 1 point for the first offense, 2 for the second, 7 for the third, and 12 for the fourth. Thresholds are 3 for a 3-day suspension, 5 for a 7-day suspension, 8 for a 14-day suspension, and 12 for a perma-ban. Points will be adjusted to some extent based on the seriousness of the offense and whether the poster has been here long enough to know better.

Discussion is welcome below.

[LotusExcelle]

Will there be an arbitration system. i.e. lets say, for example, I have an incredibly bad day and rant and break a number of rules in the heat of the moment. In one posting I hit 14 points. Is there a redress process?

[Neverfly]

Well, I'm screwed.

[Argos]

Well, I would refrain from posting on a dog day [that´s how bad days are called in my neck of the woods].

[nauthiz]

How long do points for an infraction stay on the record?

[ToSeek]

Originally Posted by LotusExcelle

Will there be an arbitration system. i.e. lets say, for example, I have an incredibly bad day and rant and break a number of rules in the heat of the moment. In one posting I hit 14 points. Is there a redress process?

Moderators should never perma-ban anyone for short-term behavior; only people who clearly never intend to behave (spammers) or who have an extended history of bad behavior (see the list) should be banned. Note that the number of points awarded is up to the moderators - the only automated part is controlling the suspension of ban.

[ToSeek]

Originally Posted by nauthiz

How long do points for an infraction stay on the record?

That depends on the offense. Right now I have it set up so that:

1 point offense - 30 days
2 point offense - 60 days
7 point offense - 180 days

We may tweak that, though.

[grant hutchison]

Is there a statute of limitations?
The points system on a UK driving licence eventually lapses, for instance, and one starts again with a clean slate.
Do we want people to recover completely clean slates after a time period? Or do we want people to be nudged ever closer to permanent banning with each successive offence, no matter how widely spaced?

Edit: OK, answered while I was typing.

Grant Hutchison

[ToSeek]

Originally Posted by grant hutchison

Is there a statute of limitations?
The points system on a UK driving licence eventually lapses, for instance, and one starts again with a clean slate.
Do we want people to recover completely clean slates after a time period? Or do we want people to be nudged ever closer to permanent banning with each successive offence, no matter how widely spaced?

Grant Hutchison

Moderators already consider the length of time since the last rule violation when deciding what to do about the current one. This wouldn't change that - moderators have the leeway to decide that, because it's been a year since the last offense, this new violation will be considered a first offense rather than a second or third.

Again, the awarding of points remains a completely manual process subject to the moderators' judgment. It's only the result of awarding the points that's automated.

[Gillianren]

I think we all know this isn't going to please everyone, but we all know nothing will. I'm relatively happy with it, though, because I think the biggest problem I've had with past moderation would not have happened under this system.

[Tog_]

When a point is given, will the offender be notified? Will the offending person have a chance to present a defense of any sort?

[Swift]

Originally Posted by Tog_

When a point is given, will the offender be notified? Will the offending person have a chance to present a defense of any sort?

You will receive a PM about the infraction, it is an automatic part of the system.

I suspect the defense system will be no different than it is now.

[ToSeek]

If anyone would like to receive a zero-point infraction that expires after an hour, just to see what it looks like from the receiving end, let us know. We have a test one in the system that most of the moderators have experienced already.

[Tog_]

Sure. I'll take one.

[Swift]

Originally Posted by Tog_

Sure. I'll take one.

Done. Thanks for being a test case.

[NickW]

Sure, send one to me. Hopefully it will be the only time I see it.

[Tog_]

Cool it shows up in the user control panel too. That way people that get then can see when they expire.

Edit: There is now an infraction tab on my profile too. Can that be seen by everyone?

[TheHalcyonYear]

So, so I understand correctly here? If I have accumulated enough points and go over the top I could be permanently banned, but if I were to wait a few days and let some points drop off my record, I would be ok?

[Moose]

It'll be more than a "few" days, but yes, if you behave long enough (as happens now), your record cools off.

[R.A.F.]

Originally Posted by Tog_

There is now an infraction tab on my profile too. Can that be seen by everyone?

I don't see it in your profile.

[Moose]

Speaking of which, I could use a volunteer as well to serve as a short term squeaky toy to see how the panel controls work. I promise I'll be (relatively) gentle.

[ToSeek]

Originally Posted by NickW

Sure, send one to me. Hopefully it will be the only time I see it.

Done.

[Frog march]

I don't really like the idea of the software banning, or suspending anyone.
does that really have to be automated?

[slang]

Originally Posted by Moose

Speaking of which, I could use a volunteer as well to serve as a short term squeaky toy to see how the panel controls work. I promise I'll be (relatively) gentle.

Hit me with your rhythm stick.
Hit me! Hit me!
Das ist gut! C'est fantastique!
Hit me! hit me! hit me!
Hit me with your rhythm stick.
It's nice to be a lunatic.
Hit me! Hit me! Hit meeeeee!

[Tog_]

I guess the infraction tab only appears when you look at your own profile.

Originally Posted by Moose

Speaking of which, I could use a volunteer as well to serve as a short term squeaky toy to see how the panel controls work. I promise I'll be (relatively) gentle.

I'll offer myself up as a target to any mod that wants to try it out. I'll be going to bed soon anyway, so I likely won't even know they happened.

[Moose]

Frog_march, think of it as administrative automation. Ultimately, the mod team still makes all decisions, but the advantage is that we can see, in one place, a poster's entire history. And you can see your own history as well.

[Edit: Thanks slang.]

[ToSeek]

Originally Posted by Frog march

I don't really like the idea of the software banning, or suspending anyone.
does that really have to be automated?

The moderators will have enough information prior to handing out the infraction to know what the result is going to be. I don't see a problem with having a more standardized and slightly automated schema for handling it.

[Frog march]

I like the idea of an infraction system, but ultimately I think the ban/suspension button should be pressed manually.

Seems healthier, to me.

[Frog march]

Originally Posted by ToSeek

The moderators will have enough information prior to handing out the infraction to know what the result is going to be. I don't see a problem with having a more standardized and slightly automated schema for handling it.

that's what I mean; Mods can control what is happening anyway, but one stage removed....what's wrong with the mods having the final say, directly?

I would rather the driver of a bus have his hands directly on the steering wheel, rather than award points as to how much left, or right the wheel should be turned.

[Neverfly]

Originally Posted by Frog march

I would rather the driver of a bus have his hands directly on the steering wheel, rather than award points as to how much left, or right the wheel should be turned.

What?