Moderators: The Next Generation

[Whirlpool]

Originally Posted by Fraser

But I also think that it gives people too much anonymity. You can say rude and hurtful things without having to be accountable for your actions. I think people are willing to say things through a PM system when they can do so without any kind of repercussions and impact on their permanent reputation. And maybe that needs to change.

Like I said, just a thought. It just seems strange to me that it's somehow our responsibility for people's private conversations with each other.

Fraser , if the current issue is the one that influenced you in thinking about Shutting PM's , Pardon me but you are being subjective here.

We need those (PM's / emails) to talk about matters that doesn't need Other People to see and know . It's more on the Personal Level. And it's a Personal Responsibility. All of us has the capacity to think and weigh if a certain issue if we are able to solve by ourselves or Do we need the help of others. It's Not You or the Moderators whos is Responsible here BUT US. It's Our Call. Regardless of the Position, a Moderator or a Member.

Taking that out is like putting Band-Aid on the wound but not dealing with the Real Cause of it.

The Issue is an Eye-Opener for us that there are things that went out of hand. The Issue is a Reminder that we are getting Relax and Laid Back that we tend forget to check ourselves that we need to be careful with our actions.

We are human beings and we are Not Perfect.

[davidlpf]

The thing is some people have realize is that everyting you do online can be accessed by people even if what you wrote was not intended to see.

I know that Neverfly has issues with one of the new mods. But if the mod treats Neverfly differently then everyone else. Then Neverfly should bring this up to the mods and admins and resolve the issue then and there.

PMs are good because sometimes there are things you want discuss to someone directly but I would never think that they are absolutely private.

[antoniseb]

The thread about Neverfly's complaint was shut down. Please don't turn this into another thread I can't participate in.

[slang]

deleted, sorry

[davidlpf]

So if mention Neverflys thread Antoniseb can not post, hmm interesting.

[Fraser]

Like I said, disabling PMs was an off-hand idea, mostly unrelated to the current issue that's going on. I can see that people like their PMs, so consider it off the table.

[Neverfly]

Fraser, would you be open to the idea of (This is not my own idea, but I'll let he who said it take credit on his own terms) adding Admins?

Because ummm...

From what you have said and others, you two are very busy. It might be very beneficial for you both if you had another Admin available- sayyy... To Seek.

As an Off hand Nomination.

[davidlpf]

It would be logical.

[Neverfly]

Originally Posted by davidlpf

It would be logical.

It would be very logical.

A lack of Admin participation resulted in the thread you just referred to.

Admin participation as a result of that thread has resulted in no solution.
It has resulted in....- Nothing.


Except for tossing the idea out there to disable PM's.

That's like picking the leaves off an Ivy plant to get rid of the Ivy. It won't work. You must get to the root.

I have a very STRONG impression at this point, having just been exchanging PM's with Fraser himself- That seeking out an admin is a futile effort on this board.

Now... We have all heard that this is a "Benign Dictatorship."
But is that Truly the case?
Given the subject matter contained in the rules of this forum, Fraser and Dr Plait canNOT do whatever they want to do.
They still must answer to the Members of the board if that board is going to be successful.
If they are too busy to do so, that's fine. But it seems logical that they should have an admin that is not too busy available.

[davidlpf]

Neverfly I was joking.

But since this whole thing started I was trying to get it through your thick skull you were over reacting.

[Neverfly]

Originally Posted by davidlpf

Neverfly I was joking.

But since this whole thing started I was trying to get it through your think skull you were over reacting.

davidplf, now is not the appropriate time for jokes.

Your own opinion (and undoubtedly others) is that I am over-reacting.
However, I am not.

Let me spell this out:
I had an issue.
I PM'ed Both admins about Two separate issues.
I got no response. In spite of the fact that the pm's were read.


Now see... This is just My Nature.
Being a soldier type of guy- The kind of person that will sling a weapon on his shoulder and be willing to go get killed.
I don't care if I get humiliated.
I don't care if you think I am over reacting.

I am tired of getting treated like junk everywhere I go. I go to Wal mart and get told that clerks can't accept a $100 bill as store policy. What? I'm not one of those people that goes "Well ok I guess..."
I over react.
I talk to the manager. The manager tells me that is NOT store Policy and handles thse situation.

If I go to McDonalds and get mouthed off at by a sneering employee behinds the counter, I don't go grumbling off to a table.
I over react.
I talk to the manager. The manager agrees with me that employess have no business being rude to customers.

I'm not going to put up with it. Too many people put up with it.
Not at gas stations- Not at McDonalds- Not from the Government or a Court House...
If I'm wronged- I speak out.

I don't care if you think I should not.

I don't care if it causes drama or makes life wearisome if I speak out. I'm tired too. I been choppin' trees for three days now. I'm sore. I'm tired.
I'm not gonna make those into excuses for laying down and sayin' to myself to let myself be wronged.

[davidlpf]

I guess it is just two different ways of seeing the situation. I do not think there should be more admins I think some people should use some common sense. There are situations where you should protest and other times to find a compromise.

[Neverfly]

Originally Posted by davidlpf

I guess it is just two different ways of seeing the situation. I do not think there should be more admins I think some people should use some common sense. There are situations where you should protest and other times to find a compromise.

True.

So what do you do when a protest is ignored, you fell like you've been violated and a compromise can only be reached through effective and efficient communication?

[mugaliens]

Originally Posted by Fraser

Like I said, just a thought. It just seems strange to me that it's somehow our responsibility for people's private conversations with each other.

I do not believe that's your responsibility. Instead, I believe handling PMs sent to me is my responsibility, just as it's my responsibility use the PM function responsibly. If someone PMs me with junk, I treat it as junk and throw it away. If they persist, I'll start deleting them without reading them. If it gets ugly, I might report it to a mod, but only the uninvited and rampant PMing, not its contents.

Trying to ride herd on PM issues is really not a part of the admin/mod job description, at least not in my experience.

I agree with others that getting rid of the PM function altogether would be analogous to getting rid of cars because of accidents. It's the driver's responsibility to ensure safely drive their vehicle. Getting rid of all cars because of a few accidents is, well, overkill.

In this light, I ask that the PM function continue!

[davidlpf]

I do not think your protest was ignored I think they are trying figure out what the compromise would be.

[Neverfly]

Originally Posted by davidlpf

I do not think your protest was ignored I think they are trying figure out what the compromise would be.

My impression from the PM I received is quite OtherWise

If I call up the manager at a restaurant where a waiter called me fat... and he hangs up the phone... Should I feel like they are working on it?

[Whirlpool]

Originally Posted by mugaliens

I do not believe that's your responsibility. Instead, I believe handling PMs sent to me is my responsibility, just as it's my responsibility use the PM function responsibly. If someone PMs me with junk, I treat it as junk and through it away. If they persist, I'll start deleting them without reading them. If it gets ugly, I might report it to a mod, but only the uninvited and rampant PMing, not its contents.

Trying to ride herd on PM issues is really not a part of the admin/mod job description, at least not in my experience.

I agree with others that getting rid of the PM function altogether would be analogous to getting rid of cars because of accidents. It's the driver's responsibility to ensure safely drive their vehicle. Getting rid of all cars because of a few accidents is, well, overkill.

In this light, I ask that the PM function continue!

Mugs, you expressed it very well than I did.

Thank you .

[Neverfly]

Would I have even needed to call the manager had that waiter turned to me and said, "I messed up and I'm sorry about that"?

[Neverfly]

The waiter did not do that. What I saw was the possibility of a deeper problem, that I would have to Act Fast before it burrowed too deep for me to catch.

[01101001]

Originally Posted by ToSeek

[...] we've added the following moderators:

PetersCreek hhEb09'1 captain swoop tusenfem Sticks pzkpfw chrissy

Please welcome them into their new roles.

Yes, welcome added moderators to your new rolls.

I sincerely hope you are enjoying providing friendly service to your friendly fellow BAUT members.

I know all members certainly appreciate your efforts, your sacrifice, your caring, 100 percent. You old-fogey's too.

[stutefish]

Inflammatory comment deleted.

[Neverfly]

Originally Posted by stutefish

Or end the drama. Either way.

Moderators: The Next Generation

[HenrikOlsen]

I'll go out on a limb here since it seems that this thread did get derailed anyway.

In my opinion, and without knowing the content of the PM: if it had been passed on it would have been an unacceptable violation of trust.
Snarky comments trying to make light of or denying this is not helping in any way.

I don't know what gave the impression that it was passed on, but both the purported sender and recipient has stated clearly that it was not passed on.

To get back to the waiter/manager analogy, what would you have the waiter do if he hadn't actually messed up? Would you expect him to apologize for something he didn't do?

[Neverfly]

Originally Posted by HenrikOlsen

I'll go out on a limb here since it seems that this thread did get derailed anyway.

In my opinion, and without knowing the content of the PM: if it had been passed on it would have been an unacceptable violation of trust.
Snarky comments trying to make light of or denying this is not helping in any way.

I don't know what gave the impression that it was passed on, but both the purported sender and recipient has stated clearly that it was not passed on.

To get back to the waiter/manager analogy, what would you have the waiter do if he hadn't actually messed up? Would you expect him to apologize for something he didn't do?

The recipient was the one who informed me of the PM and had shown it to me.
The recipient has given me permission to disclose all of that information to the Moderators. And showed me the relevant PM again in the process.
I believe...
That if there is confusion in whether it was sent or not it may be because the sender was thinking of a different PM. That is me giving the send the benefit of the doubt.
However...

This is why I said I acted fast. Had you been in my shoes, you undoubtedly would have had the same reaction.
The impression was strongly given that "I'm telling you one thing but passing your messages on behind your back."
The only reason that it's publicly known that it was a New Moderator- is because that is very relevant to whether or not the reasons stated (sharing with the Mods) was valid. Since that new mod was the topic of the confidential PM, and was brand new, sending the PM but NOT Informing any other Moderator looks like an act of confidence broken- Not Moderation.
If such is going on- that is a Major Problem- I acted fast before it could burrow down.

If not and I make a fool of myself- then so be it.
It would be worthwhile if it was. I mean, if we can't trust the Moderators with our messages...


And HenrikOlsen, as a moderator, perhaps you can move relevant posts to the proper thread.

[HenrikOlsen]

Originally Posted by Neverfly

And HenrikOlsen, as a moderator, perhaps you can move relevant posts to the proper thread.

I tried, but couldn't without ending up with two confusing threads.

[Neverfly]

Originally Posted by HenrikOlsen

I tried, but couldn't without ending up with two confusing threads.

That's not surprising.. the whole thing is a confusing mess with very few people having enough information to be only slightly confused instead of totally confused.

[timb]

Originally Posted by 01101001

Yes, welcome added moderators to your new rolls.

Rolls? I didn't know they were so well remunerated.

Congratulations to all. I'm sure you will do your best for BAUT.

[antoniseb]

In spite of my previous request, this thread has gone way off topic. I'm closing it. If someone has something to say about the new batch of moderators, in the form of a welcome type comment, please PM the new moderator with your cheery message.

[antoniseb]

I have added Swift to the list of moderators.

[ToSeek]

kashi has stepped down as a moderator.