Did you post a thread in the ATM section? If so could you post a link, as I would like to read it, and if it's already been deleted could you send me a copy - to my BAUT mail?

Are you suggesting that we not build the LHC? and that we don't search for "the particle"? I think the risks have been adequately addressed, and while there is a small (probably very small) chance that something could go wrong that's part of science and life in general...

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The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool.
~~~ Richard Feynman ~~~
There is no harm in doubt and skepticism, for it is through these that new discoveries are made.
~~~ Richard Feynman ~~~

As Promised:

http://arxiv.org/abs/hep-th/0501068

http://www.bnl.gov/RHIC/black_holes.htm

It appears that they have produced what they are calling black hole like effects, but are not black holes. More of something that is equivlent to a black hole due to the sudden decelaration durring the collision.

Basicaly the Thermal Radiation matches the exact amout of expected hawking radiation of a similar massed true black hole, and particals do not escape during the first few moments of the collision.

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"There is no problem that cannot be solved by a suitable application of high explosives" - US Army Demolitions School

http://worldsofothersuns.home.comcast.net/

I have posted hundreds of pages in ATM but essentially the idea is what if the proton is a wormhole connected in time from beginning to end of the universe. That should save you hours of reading.

I left on a bad footing here and yes while I am all in favor of so much of what science has given to the world. I had decided not to post until I had something positive to say about the experiment at CERN.

So this is it:-
If Einstein's idea of wormholes is the correct view then in a couple of years every woman on the planet will have lost 10 to 20 kilos just by owning a set of spring registered scales.

Based on an idea a unifying hypothesis similar to Twistor Theory which indicates the solar system will soon pass through a large galactic wormhole. The gravitational change would be similar to Mercury being advanced through the perihelion of its orbit. Sure I do not wish to see CERN get drawn into the vortex of Lake Geneva but it would indicate the greatest potential window for planetary exploration for millions of years.

Instead of launching tens of tonnes the potential lift could be into the thousands of tonnes because rocket thrust would not be impaired. So yes if it finds the elusive particle and even if it is destroyed provided it doesn't damage the world it could herald the greatest advance humanity has ever had the opportunity of making.

Michael.

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"Nature is obliged to let reality determine its laws, whereas mathematics is under no such constraint."

Since it's late, and I'm a week behind, I'll just ask one question.
Why do you think NMRI is now called simply MRI? Because the N is for "nuclear." [N]MRI has nothing to do with nuclear radiation; it's a technique that uses magnetic fields to jiggle the atomic nuclei that you are already made of so we can take pictures of your insides.

Thus my contention that the uninformed public is afraid of the word nuclear.

Fred

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"For shame, gentlemen, pack your evidence a little better against another time."
-- John Dryden, "The Vindication of The Duke of Guise" 1684

Heh. Yes, for several years it was referred to as "NMR" (they didn't even bother with the "I" for imaging). I well remember when they dropped the "N" and added the "I".

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I say there is an invisible elf in my backyard. How do you prove that I am wrong?

Disclaimer: Avatar is not an official NASA image and does not imply any specific interplanetary or interstellar capability.

The Leif Ericson Cruiser

I should have been a bit more helpful spratleyj here is a link to my ATM.
It is not right for me to promote ideas other that science mainstream outside ATM so this is the best method I can think of. I hope it helps, cheers.
Michael.

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"Nature is obliged to let reality determine its laws, whereas mathematics is under no such constraint."

ok, thanks for the link I'm not sure where to post this, but I wanted to let you'll know that starting tomorrow I'm going to be "offline" for about 10 days... so when you don't see me posting, don't assume that I've quite or lost interest

__________________
The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool.
~~~ Richard Feynman ~~~
There is no harm in doubt and skepticism, for it is through these that new discoveries are made.
~~~ Richard Feynman ~~~

I'm just sick this didn't get built:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superco...Super_Collider

LHC is just a consolation prize in comparison.

Ah, but the SSC was built in an alternate timeline. It spawned Universal destruction. Luckily however, time travel became possible at just the right time. They sent time travelers back in time to sabotage the SSC before it could power up.

Well, that's what one novel claimed

More seriously, I also wish it had been completed. It could have kept the U.S.A at the front lines of particle research. It was a massive undertaking though and I'm not sure they were ready for it. Design issues and cost overruns were plaguing the project. Still, it seemed silly to just up and abandon it after so much work was done.

Agreed! Not just as a Texan and an American, but as a science lover who mours the loss of an instrument that would have dwarfed the LHC!

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Any day you wake up on "the right side of the dirt" is a good day.

T. Anderson

The other advantage of the SSC would have been that since it was an American instrument, that frivolous lawsuits in American courts, to stop it from destroying the Earth, could have gone forward!

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At night the stars put on a show for free (Carole King)

I guess you missed the memo.

Let me just say, you don't really think the TransTexas Corridor is all about highways and transportation, do you? Haven't you noticed that open area between the highways... the one they say is reserved for rail lines and "industrial pipelines"?

Trace out the path of the completed package, connecting all the planned corridors, and...

Well, 'nuff said. Don't want no frivilous lawsuits gettin' started.

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Never attribute to malice what can be adequately explained by ignorance or stupidity.
Isaac Asimov

Jim,
Could you be a little more vague?

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Any day you wake up on "the right side of the dirt" is a good day.

T. Anderson

Looks to me like a tongue-in-cheek CT story.

__________________
I say there is an invisible elf in my backyard. How do you prove that I am wrong?

Disclaimer: Avatar is not an official NASA image and does not imply any specific interplanetary or interstellar capability.

The Leif Ericson Cruiser

Thank you, Van Rijn.

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Never attribute to malice what can be adequately explained by ignorance or stupidity.
Isaac Asimov

The July 19th issue of Science News had a big cover story on the LHC, including information about the detectors and specific experiments.

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At night the stars put on a show for free (Carole King)

I wonder if it would be possible to convert Large Handron into an asat weapon--with emitters above ground...

Wow. I found this article in Nature.

I am now very surprised there is still the head long rush to fire this machine up. The latest information is now in that the model for physics is wrong and the Higgs does not exist at roughly 170 GeV and that is confirmed by TeVatron a Fermilab particle accelerator.

What do you call a person who says perhaps we should take a closer look at what is happening now that there is something slightly amiss with the very basics of the science being used in a machine of such power?

CERN scientists gave an unequivocal guarantee that if anything was slightly amiss the project would stop until a proper solution could be found. Is this commitment to safety now going to be honored?

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"Nature is obliged to let reality determine its laws, whereas mathematics is under no such constraint."

Sorry, where in the article does it say that the standard model was proven wrong? It says that the Higgs particle wasn't found at the levels that the Tevatron is capable of. That in no way proves that the model is wrong.

Oh, and why should you be supprised that the scientists are excited to start up the LHC? The scientists involved have been building this thing for over 2 decades. It's time to put this thing to work.