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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 23-January-2007, 01:47 AM
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Default IPCC Report "Climate Change 2007"

The first phase of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) is to be released in Paris next week.

The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change wa established by WMO and UNEP to assess scientific, technical and socio- economic information relevant for the understanding of climate change, its potential impacts and options for adaptation and mitigation. It is currently finalizing its Fourth Assessment Report "Climate Change 2007". The reports by the three Working Groups provide a comprehensive and up-to-date assessment of the current state of knowledge on climate change. The Synthesis Report integrates the information around six topic areas.

A 12-page summary is to be released to the public on Feb. 2.

Read more

http://www.ipcc.ch/18ipcc.swf
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Old 26-January-2007, 11:38 PM
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They have to wait until Ground Hog day?
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Old 02-February-2007, 12:54 AM
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Are they going to explain how THIS is our fault???

Mars Emerging from Ice Age Due to Global Warming:
http://www.space.com/scienceastronom...ge_031208.html
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q...=Google+Search

Global Warming on Pluto Puzzles Scientists:
http://www.space.com/scienceastronom...ng_021009.html
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q...to&btnG=Search

Global Warming on Jupiter:
http://motls.blogspot.com/2006/05/gl...n-jupiter.html
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Old 02-February-2007, 02:31 AM
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Originally Posted by JustAFriend View Post
The only legitimate "global warming" on the list is Mars. Pluto is warming because it's near perihelion. Jupiter is not experiencing global warming. There are signs of some warming around the equator, but the poles are cooling, as the USA Today article notes.
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Old 02-February-2007, 04:28 AM
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obviously, all those probes we sent out have polluted the solar system, thus causing the radiation from the center of the galaxy to get trapped in our solar system ,which raises the average temperature a few degrees.

of course, this argument can be countered with the argument that the solar system is coming out of a colder part of it's galactic orbit, and the warming is just part of a cycle.
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Old 02-February-2007, 04:32 AM
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Climatic changes seen around the world are "very likely" to have a human cause, the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) will conclude.
By "very likely", the IPCC means greater than 90% probability.
The scientific body has spent this week finalising its positions on key issues, notably forecasts of sea level rise, as it prepares to publish a major report.
But a new study released on the eve of publication suggests its previous reports may have been too conservative.
Read More

[Ed ~ They may have held the event on groundhog day to highlight that their conclusion is what our commonsense already told us, (i of course, am speaking from a European perspective...). ]
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Old 02-February-2007, 09:35 AM
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i share your european perspective

i liked novaderrics remark very much

but it's serious boys......
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Old 02-February-2007, 11:12 AM
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So, if it's inevitable, why not just adapt to it? For example, what kinds of crops could be grown on hot dry land, and what kinds of crops could be grown on muddy, temperate land (up north)?

- Maha Vailo
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Old 02-February-2007, 11:44 AM
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If you can come up with a good conspiracy theory about the paper, you can make 10,000 US$

http://www.guardian.co.uk/internatio...rc=rss&feed=11
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Old 02-February-2007, 02:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Maha Vailo View Post
So, if it's inevitable, why not just adapt to it? For example, what kinds of crops could be grown on hot dry land, and what kinds of crops could be grown on muddy, temperate land (up north)?

- Maha Vailo
Because we can still make a difference in how big an effect there is. A couple of paragraphs from page 10 of the report.
Quote:
For the next two decades a warming of about 0.2°C per decade is projected for a range of SRES emission scenarios. Even if the concentrations of all greenhouse gases and aerosols had been kept constant at year 2000 levels, a further warming of about 0.1°C per decade would be expected. {10.3, 10.7}

...

Continued greenhouse gas emissions at or above current rates would cause further warming and induce many changes in the global climate system during the 21st century that would very likely be larger than those observed during the 20th century. {10.3}
See also Figure SPM-7 on the last page.

Link to the report

But I also think that a lot of work going forward will be on how to adapt to the changing climate.
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Last edited by Swift; 02-February-2007 at 02:07 PM. Reason: Add last paragraph
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Old 02-February-2007, 04:55 PM
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Default A little Story..

I want to tell a little story.

My son was experimenting with a glass thermometer on the kitchen table, the other day when my wife started to make dinner.

It was a cold evening and the furnace was running and the house was a comfortable 70 degrees. My wife turned on the stove and the oven to make dinner.

My son was playing with his little thermometer and he rushed over to tell me the thermometer looked like it was going up.

It only registered each degree, but he thought it went up a bit to 70+ degrees maybe a quarter or half a degree. I wanted to encourage his scientific curiosity, so I said, "Please keep watching the thermometer and I'll give you a advance on your allowance later."

So off he went and triumphantly returned a half hour later to report. "Yes, I am sure that the temperature is going up", he said breathlessly. "How much?" He said "Well its still not up a degree but my thermometer shows the red line is for sure up maybe, even to almost 71 degrees". Encouraging him I said " Here is your allowance advance, keep it up."

He soon came back and said, "It still hasn't gone up a whole degree yet. but I'm even more sure and certain its almost, almost, to 71 degrees".

"Can I have another advance on my allowance?" he asked. I rewarded him as encouragement, and said to him, "See if it it goes up some more". I said to him "What will happen if this keeps up. How hot will the house get?" He went off and came back to say "It will get too hot in the house if this keeps up". I said "You are right son. I can't argue with the truth of your scientific evidence."

I then told him , "What you said is called scientific extrapolation. You took some observational measurements and then predicted what would happen".
"No one could criticize what you said. Thats how real scientists work", trying to make sure he understood the little lesson.

"But what happens if the temperature gets to 72 or 73 degrees?", I asked. He thought for a while and answered, "Nothing; it will just keep getting hotter and hotter, My thermometer says so".

I told him very good but maybe that's not the whole story.

"What can we do about it?", I asked. "Nothing, we'll cook just like the Pot Roast mom's making", he said becoming alarmed.

Then he thought for a second and said, "The only thing we could do is open the doors and windows and let the cold in". "But then we would freeze because its so cold outside!"

Then I told him about what the thermostat on the furnace does. It is there to makes sure when the temperature in the house goes up a couple of degrees, it turns off the furnace, until the house cools off, then it turns on again.

He said "Oh", and I gave him another advance on his allowance.

I'm sure he will grow up to be a Scientist or an Engineer; he certainly learned some valid scientific principles tonight. He also learned what research grants are all about, very quickly too.

My wife than said that dinner is ready and turned off the stove, and oven and served dinner. I then said, "Maybe the house was getting warmer because mom had the stove on to make dinner."

But then I told Junior, "Ill bet you never thought about that, and that the stove and oven wouldn't always be on, forever?". He said, "Gee, I never thought of that."

As we walked in to sit down to eat, I noticed that the furnace blower stopped.

Ah, the benefits of feedback and natural regulation, I thought.

But that's a story for another day when my junior scientist has grown up enough to understand, negative feedback and natural regulation. Its probably too complex for him right now.

Isn't it nice to know that the "House Warming catastrophe" has been averted?

Last edited by Natural-Philosopher; 02-February-2007 at 09:37 PM.
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Old 02-February-2007, 05:06 PM
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Then why aren't you Europeans doing something about it? America has a much better record in actually changing CO2 emissions than Europe does.

Y'all signed Kyoto and then promptly forgot about it. Typical .. All talk ... No Action...
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Old 02-February-2007, 06:00 PM
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You are allowed to your own judgments.

I understood Blob's observance as meaning, that the European public seems to generally be more alarmed about global warming than the American. That seemes to me a quite objective description. From the European perspective, America is just beginning to awake from a state of denial concerning the reality and severity of the problem.

Your agressive style of replience is totaly unwarrented.
This is a place for cassual conversation and I have no intention to go into a polemic with you.
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Old 02-February-2007, 06:09 PM
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Hum,
while it can be argued that the Kyoto agreement did not go far enough or was not enforced by the countries, it still placed the groundwork on how to combat climate change.
It is easy to forget that the effects of climate change are over, maybe several, or hundreds of, decades, and that current political policies or governments are only (relatively) short term.
Now that this report is out there is even more pressure for countries to think on the long term economic savings.

http://www.defra.gov.uk/environment/...ange/index.htm
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Old 02-February-2007, 06:14 PM
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I'm in the American Southwest,it's noon & it's 21F/-7C,the sun is glaring off the snow that's drifted 3 feet deep in spots,as a result of the 4th or 5th snowfall in the last 2 months,one of which broke previous records for a single day.
I tend toward skepticism on the global warming issue.
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Last edited by Frantic Freddie; 02-February-2007 at 06:17 PM. Reason: edit
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Old 02-February-2007, 06:40 PM
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Natural-Philosopher,
A touching story, whether or not it is true. What's your point? I assume it is summed up in "Ah, the benefits of feedback and natural regulation, I thought.". Any evidence of that, on the global scale, not in your house.

Frantic Freddie,
That is the difference between climate and weather. If you look, for example, at FIGURE SPM-5 in the report, you will note that the warming is not uniform geographically. I recall that some models predict that some areas (the American midwest was one) might actually get more extreme seasons, colder winters and hotter summers, even though the average temperature is higher.

To all with comments about Kyoto,
Personally I think it was a very bad treaty, but I also think the US was wrong to completely walk away from it. For one thing, I think the developing countries should not be relieved of any responsibility. But we need to seperate problems with the treaty with the science of global warming. One can hate the treaty and still understand the threat that climate change will have.
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Old 02-February-2007, 06:59 PM
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I tend toward skepticism on the global warming issue.
Hum,
yes, it is good to be sceptical, but in this case, i think that the possible threat of long term climate change (extreme weather) and all that it entails outweighs the short term economic growth.

Quote:
"There can be no question that the increases in these greenhouse gases are dominated by human activity...Warming of the climate system is now unequivocal. That is evident in observations of air and ocean temperature as well as rising global mean sea level" - Susan Solomon, co-chair of the working group and an atmospheric scientist with the U.S. National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA).
Source
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Old 02-February-2007, 07:43 PM
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To all with comments about Kyoto,
Personally I think it was a very bad treaty, but I also think the US was wrong to completely walk away from it. For one thing, I think the developing countries should not be relieved of any responsibility. But we need to seperate problems with the treaty with the science of global warming. One can hate the treaty and still understand the threat that climate change will have.
Sometimes, the only thing worse than doing nothing is doing the wrong thing while patting yourself on the back for having done something. Too often accepting a solution that doesn't work can be misconstrued as having done all one can. Especially in the political arena.

If there's going to be effective global legislation on warming and pollution control, get it right.
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Old 02-February-2007, 08:43 PM
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Default Feedback and natural regulation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Swift View Post
Natural-Philosopher,
A touching story, whether or not it is true. What's your point? I assume it is summed up in "Ah, the benefits of feedback and natural regulation, I thought.". Any evidence of that, on the global scale, not in your house.

.
The Planet has been warmer and colder than it is now, but there are lots of built-in natural regulators at work to help keep it approximately constant with in a relatively narrow range of temperatures.

If the world grows warmer in the eccentricities of its orbit, coming closer to the Sun, as happens periodically, more water is evaporated. This rises and forms clouds. Clouds are very good at re-radiating solar energy back into space, so it cools the world. When the evaporated water vapor condenses and falls to earth, it cools the air and land.
Feedback and natural regulation.

The flux of CO2 between the atmosphere and the Oceans is not precisely known but about 40% of the total atmospheric CO2, every year. Until recently we were warned the oceans couldn't keep this up for more than several hundred years more, because there was little to consume CO2, as it reached the depths. Now we know that one third of the life on Earth sits there in the deeps and below it for several miles into the Earth, just happily munching on dissolved CO2.
Feedback and natural regulation.

As the tropic oceans warmed in the excess of Solar energy a natural response occurred following the Second Law of Thermodynamics. Heat equalizes. Hot things grow cooler and cool things grow warmer. Ocean currents formed which took warm tropic water toward the cold arctic and circulated cold water back to the warm tropics. More heat, more circulation.
Feedback and natural regulation.

CO2 as a GHG can only absorb energy at certain frequencies. It only works to absorb energy in the CO2 frequency bands if they are not saturated. Those bands are almost wholly saturated. The increase of CO2 in the atmosphere from 50 parts of almost nothi