Chatroom
 

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Bad Astronomy and Universe Today Forum > Space and Astronomy > General Science
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

   

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 14-February-2008, 04:27 PM
Paradox244's Avatar
Paradox244 Paradox244 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 39
Default Speed and the Earth's Movement

Now I'm no scientist, but I like to think that I'm an educated layman. I know a but about physics, but something has always bothered me. I know that light is the fastest that anything can go. I know about inerta and all that. But there is something I don't get. When we are at rest on the earth, aren't we actually moving around the sun, and the sun around the galactic center, and the galaxy around the gravitational center of the local cluster? So when we are are at rest, wouldn't we still be moving at incredible speeds?

Is this factored into the equasions, or does something negate it? I suspect it has something to do with frames of referance or gravity, but I really don't have a clue. Thanks.
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 14-February-2008, 04:37 PM
Planar WaveSherpa Planar WaveSherpa is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 9
Default

It's all about relative movement, so your suspicions about frame of reference having a part in it are completely founded. You're on the right track.
__________________
watch out for that avalanche photodiode!
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 14-February-2008, 04:41 PM
Paradox244's Avatar
Paradox244 Paradox244 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 39
Default

Ok, let me try to work this out. Since the earth is in an inertal frame of referance, it would be equally correct to say that the rest of the universe is moving and we are standing still, mathmatically at least. So the rules hold up. Is that right?
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 14-February-2008, 04:44 PM
hhEb09'1's Avatar
hhEb09'1 hhEb09'1 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: NC USA
Posts: 7,960
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paradox244 View Post
Ok, let me try to work this out. Since the earth is in an inertal frame of referance, it would be equally correct to say that the rest of the universe is moving and we are standing still, mathmatically at least. So the rules hold up. Is that right?
A reference frame fixed to the earth is not inertial--which is why coriolis force (a "fictitious" force) exists in that reference frame, and can induce hurricane rotation direction, for instance.
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 14-February-2008, 04:45 PM
Paradox244's Avatar
Paradox244 Paradox244 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 39
Default

So what is the answer?
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 14-February-2008, 04:58 PM
hhEb09'1's Avatar
hhEb09'1 hhEb09'1 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: NC USA
Posts: 7,960
Default

To this question?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paradox244 View Post
Is this factored into the equasions, or does something negate it?
It is factored into the equations, although I suspect that you might consider it "negated".
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 14-February-2008, 04:59 PM
Paradox244's Avatar
Paradox244 Paradox244 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 39
Default

Ah, that's good to know. Thanks. Just something I've always wondered.
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 14-February-2008, 05:29 PM
Noclevername's Avatar
Noclevername Noclevername is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 10,714
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paradox244 View Post
Ok, let me try to work this out. Since the earth is in an inertal frame of referance, it would be equally correct to say that the rest of the universe is moving and we are standing still, mathmatically at least. So the rules hold up. Is that right?
Right.
__________________
"If this were play'd upon a stage now, I could condemn it as an improbable fiction."
Shakespeare, Twelfth Night
Illuminati's Razor-The most complicatedly evil answer is usually the most correct answer. - Fazor
"Every book is a children's book if the kid can read." - Mitch Hedberg
"Distance doesn’t matter much in space, where if you just start a thing off with the right kind of shove, sooner or later it will get where you want it to go." -Frederik Pohl, Mining the Oort
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 18-February-2008, 05:04 AM
Occams Ghost Occams Ghost is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 449
Default

Everything is moving. Nothing is at rest.

This is the secret of relativity.
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 18-February-2008, 05:42 AM
CodeSlinger's Avatar
CodeSlinger CodeSlinger is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Gilead-that-Was
Posts: 746
Default

Whether something is moving or at rest depends on what reference frame you're using. THAT is the secret of relativity.
__________________
"It's over you head now. Time to get some professional help." - My fortune cookie from lunch

Ned Wright's Cosmology Tutorial

Usenet Physics FAQ
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 18-February-2008, 05:48 AM
Jens's Avatar
Jens Jens is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Tokyo
Posts: 1,908
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paradox244 View Post
So when we are are at rest, wouldn't we still be moving at incredible speeds?
I may be putting my foot into my mouth, because I'm a layperson also, but I'm not certain the speeds are so incredible. The speed tends to slow as you get further from the center of a system, so I don't think that we're necessarily moving that quickly. Certainly not something that would approach the speed of light relative to nearby objects. Though incredible is a relative term, and it depends on perspective. I guess our speed would be incredible in comparison to a person walking.
__________________
As above, so below
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 18-February-2008, 03:13 PM
Noclevername's Avatar
Noclevername Noclevername is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 10,714
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jens View Post
I guess our speed would be incredible in comparison to a person walking.
On what?
__________________
"If this were play'd upon a stage now, I could condemn it as an improbable fiction."
Shakespeare, Twelfth Night
Illuminati's Razor-The most complicatedly evil answer is usually the most correct answer. - Fazor
"Every book is a children's book if the kid can read." - Mitch Hedberg
"Distance doesn’t matter much in space, where if you just start a thing off with the right kind of shove, sooner or later it will get where you want it to go." -Frederik Pohl, Mining the Oort
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT. The time now is 05:04 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.0.0
©  2006 Bad Astronomy and Universe Today