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  #181 (permalink)  
Old 30-May-2008, 09:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Kaptain K View Post
Yes, and August (the hottest month in the northern hemisphere) is well past the "peak" of summer (solstice - June 20th).

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The NH (or SH) will warm based on whether total energy is increasing or decreasing. Solstice is simply when it’s increasing/deceasing the fastest which obviously isn’t the same.

There isn’t really an analogy to this in Milankovitch cycles. There can be a few decades of lag due to the time it takes the oceans to heat/cool, but on the time scale Milankovitch cycles that’s insignificant.


Edit – that’s for the initial temperature change. There is going to be a somewhat longer lag for CO2 levels to change. Even if that is a few centuries, however, it’s still small on the scale of Milankovitch cycles.
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  #182 (permalink)  
Old 31-May-2008, 07:11 PM
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Originally Posted by GOURDHEAD View Post
If N tons of water are added on day 1 and the rate is constant, at the end of day 3 there will be one-half of day 1's plus larger fractions of day 2 and day 3 additions. Probably over 5N tons of water accumulation which will approach some constant value at the limit. Can your assertion be used to quantify this constant value for the contribution from irrigation supplied atmospheric water?
Remember that water's effect on warming is highly non-linear, at higher concentrations, where clouds form, its effect is negative.
At even higher concentrations it'll remove itself as rain.

So there's a maximum warming effect of water vapor, which incidentally rises with temperature so increased warming from CO2 will increase the warming effect of water vapor.
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  #183 (permalink)  
Old 31-May-2008, 10:01 PM
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Don't forget CH4, which presumably is increasing with the increase in agriculture. Methane is a very effective greenhouse gas and aside from the increase in cattle, there are vast amounts frozen in the tundra that are threatened by the thawing of the northern plains.
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Old 04-June-2008, 02:24 PM
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So there's a maximum warming effect of water vapor, which incidentally rises with temperature so increased warming from CO2 will increase the warming effect of water vapor.
Water vapor also has a negative feedback aspect which cools by reflecting a larger percentage of incoming radiation. I'm not sure how well understood this effect is. A dense, uninterrupted, cloud cover will probably affect precipitation patterns perhaps dumping water at latitudes and altitudes where it will start building and refurbishing glaciers.

I can imaginine conditions where water in gaseous, vaporous, and clumps of atmospheric ice exist together. I doubt whether we know how the various combinations and permutations of these cloud constituents can affect weather and climate where they are sufficiently longlasting.
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Old 04-June-2008, 05:04 PM
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Actually, there's even another feedback mechanism with water - greater amounts of rainfall (from increased water vapor) means that more CO2 dissolves in the ocean and is removed from the atmosphere, cooling the planet (this one has a very long timescale though - about half a million years to establish equilibrium IIRC).
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