Incidentally whenever I get the the privilege to visit the British Museum (Sadly not since 2000) I always paid homage to the Black Obelisk of Shalmaneser III

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Fame, glory adventure, a cyber warrior craves not these things.

I don't think anybody who replied to this thread had the intent of putting into question the existence of the ancient Israelites. There certainly is plenty of evidence of that! What was questioned was the episode of their captivity in Egypt, and the date when that event might have taken place.

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"All your bias are belong to us." Ara Pacis
"A witty saying proves nothing." Voltaire

The wiki entry is one place.

I could, but I don't.

You should know me well enough that I think there is plenty of circumstantial evidence for "those from heaven to earth came."



Agreed.

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"Where the telescope ends, the microscope begins. Which of the two has the greater view?" - Hugo

"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened." - Churchill

It is the egyptian rendering of Hapiru, or Hebrew.

I see.

Although, it seems to me if one asserts "the only egyptian record..." one might be able to recall what that record is.

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"Where the telescope ends, the microscope begins. Which of the two has the greater view?" - Hugo

"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened." - Churchill

I must have been thinking cross purposes here

Did you ever come across the thesis of Professor David Rohl that the Egyptian chronology is wrong, and using a revised Chronology many of the events recorded in the OT appear in the Archaeological record.

This is his book on the theory

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Fame, glory adventure, a cyber warrior craves not these things.

Do you know how many literally hundreds of books I read every year? Do you know how many I own? I read that it's the only piece of documentation. The book I read said "the only." I will go find which book it is, but that will take time. Some of us prefer to do our research from books.

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Gillian

"Now everyone was giving her that kind of look UFOlogists get when they suddenly say, 'Hey, if you shade your eyes you can see it is just a flock of geese after all.'"

"You can't erase icing."

"I can't believe it doesn't work! I found it on the internet, man!"

Well, perhaps a duey decimal system might help you better organize your books for quick reference?

Would it matter to you that I also have a library?
That I also, while not hundreds, read many books each year?

Am I supposed to be impressed somehow with how well read you might be?

What I'd be impressed with, Gillian, is a reference to support your assertion of the "only egyptian record..."

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"Where the telescope ends, the microscope begins. Which of the two has the greater view?" - Hugo

"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened." - Churchill

If there are others, surely someone could post them? I'd be most interested myself.

Well, wiki's article on Habiru lists several egyptian sources, which is why I wanted Gillianren to produce a source supporting her "only egyptian record..." assertion.

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"Where the telescope ends, the microscope begins. Which of the two has the greater view?" - Hugo

"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened." - Churchill

Thanks for the link. However, it seems that issue is far from settled in that article:
And here:
Perhaps Gillianren was referring to generally agreed upon references (I don't mean to speak for her, just wondering)?

Which issue exactly?
Whether or not there are more than one egyptian reference or whether pr.w, habiru, hapiru are the biblical Hebrews?

Perhaps, but I'd like to know which book says "the only egyptian record."

"In that vein, some modern scholars consider the Habiru to be more of a social designation than an ethnic or a tribal one. That does not, however, exclude the possibility that the Biblical Hebrews were descended from one specific group of Habiru and that with them it eventually became an ethnic name; such shifts in the meaning of names and designations are well-known elsewhere."

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"Where the telescope ends, the microscope begins. Which of the two has the greater view?" - Hugo

"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened." - Churchill

I'm a bit confused, A.DIM. You wrote:

Why did you speak of 'a couple million Hebrews in the Sinai for 40yrs'? I didn't know there was a figure for the number of Hebrews who supposedly fled Egypt with Moses, and a couple million seems far too high...

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"All your bias are belong to us." Ara Pacis
"A witty saying proves nothing." Voltaire

For context of the era the Ipuwer papyrus is fascinating. It seems to describe events from the Egyptian point of view.

For a background of the writing Wiki will do.

For an English translation see here.

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(By the way, I hate it that so many papers in the areas of planetary science and geology are not easily avaiable to the dreaded "non-subscribers". It is like they are screaming at me: "YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH". Good, I feel better now.)

I know you are a person who takes his physics seriously, but isn't it said that most great discoveries aren't discovered with "Eureka!" but with, "Hmmm, that's funny." Big Don

Exodus 12:37 speaks of some 600 thousand military aged men accompanied by many others. You will find in almost any discussion of the exodus estimates from 2 million upwards of 4 million.

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"Where the telescope ends, the microscope begins. Which of the two has the greater view?" - Hugo

"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened." - Churchill

From Don't Know Much About the Bible, by Kenneth C. Davis:

I'm still looking for the other reference; clearly, it is in a different book.

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Gillian

"Now everyone was giving her that kind of look UFOlogists get when they suddenly say, 'Hey, if you shade your eyes you can see it is just a flock of geese after all.'"

"You can't erase icing."

"I can't believe it doesn't work! I found it on the internet, man!"

Thanks for that quote, Gillianren.

Interesting, indeed. Strongly suggestive of a social upheaval, perhaps even revolution. "Woe is me: my servants have become masters, and I a servant" -- an eternal theme.

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"All your bias are belong to us." Ara Pacis
"A witty saying proves nothing." Voltaire

Revolution indeed: section II

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(By the way, I hate it that so many papers in the areas of planetary science and geology are not easily avaiable to the dreaded "non-subscribers". It is like they are screaming at me: "YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH". Good, I feel better now.)

I know you are a person who takes his physics seriously, but isn't it said that most great discoveries aren't discovered with "Eureka!" but with, "Hmmm, that's funny." Big Don

And hopefully more scholarly, as well as relevant to my question.

IMO, Davis' "Don't Know Much About..." series is akin to the "...for Dummies" series.

Don't know much about Geography, about History, about Civil War...

I wonder what is his educational background?
What qualifies him as an authority on any of these topics?


No matter, I'm still looking forward to the reference which states "the only egyptian record."

__________________
"Where the telescope ends, the microscope begins. Which of the two has the greater view?" - Hugo

"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened." - Churchill