Why?

From the "Habiru" link I provided before:


Egyptian sources

Several Egyptian sources, both before and after the Amarna letters, mention a people called `PR.W in the consonant-only Egyptian script, where .W is the plural marker. The pronunciation of this word has been reconstructed as apiru. From similarity of context and description, it is believed that the Egyptian `PR.W are equivalent to the Akkadian Habiru/Hapiru.

In his account of the conquest of Joppa, General Toth of pharaoh Thutmose III of Egypt (around 1440 BC) asks at some point that his horses be taken inside the city, lest they be stolen by a passing Apir.

On two stelae at Memphis and Karnak, Thutmose III's son Amenhotep II boasts of having made 89,600 prisoners in his campaign in Canaan (around 1420 BC), including "127 princes and 179 nobles(?) of Retenu, 3600 Apiru, 15,200 Shasu, 36,600 Hurrians," etc.

A stela from the reign of Seti I (around 1300 BC) tells that the pharaoh sent an expedition into the Levant, in response to an attack of "the apiru from Mount Yarmuta" upon a local town.

A list of goods bequeathed to several temples by Pharaoh Ramesses III (around 1160 BC) includes many serfs, Egyptian and foreign: 86,486 to Thebes (2607 foreigners), 12,364 to Heliopolis (2093 foreign), and 3079 to Memphis (205 foreign). The foreign serfs are described as "maryanu (soldiers), apiru, and people already settled in the temple estate".

The laborers that Ramesses IV sent to the quarry of Wadi Hammamat in his third year included 5,000 soldiers, 2,000 men attached to the temples of Pharaoh as well as 800 Apiru.[6] This is the last known reference to the Apiru in Egyptian documents.

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"Where the telescope ends, the microscope begins. Which of the two has the greater view?" - Hugo

"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened." - Churchill

But, as Wikipedia also notes, the identification of the Hapiru with the ancient Hebrews is not certain. Several historians dispute it.

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"All your bias are belong to us." Ara Pacis
"A witty saying proves nothing." Voltaire

Rhetorical question?

If I were one who simply dismissed the Bible's historicity then I'd have accepted her statement without asking for a reference.

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"Where the telescope ends, the microscope begins. Which of the two has the greater view?" - Hugo

"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened." - Churchill

Agreed, though the connection seems self evident.

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"Where the telescope ends, the microscope begins. Which of the two has the greater view?" - Hugo

"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened." - Churchill

What matters is the truth of the statement, not who said it when. The fact that you can provide no convincing evidence that the statement is incorrect leads me to believe it stands the greatest chance of being correct. I would be happy to provide a list of historical errors in the Bible for you:

Genesis 11:11 (and elsewhere) claims people lived for 500 years. Where is the historical and/or biological support for this?

Deuteronomy claims there were giants on the earth. Where is the archaeological evidence for this?

1 Samuel claims the Earth is resting on pillars. Do I even need to ask this one?

And it goes on and on. My point is not to slam religion...my point is that if you are going to claim the Bible as historically accurate, I would say the burden of proof is on you. Focusing on such a trivial question does not help your case, IMO.

My "case?"

I don't claim the bible is infallably accurate.

I'm sure we could go tit for tat in regards to items historically accurate or no, but that's not what I'm interested in.

I'd like to see a reference which supports the claim that there is a single egyptian record, the "only", record which refers to the Hebrew people.

Then again, I realize that ancient egyptians weren't known for writing down their failures, such as a massive exodus.

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"Where the telescope ends, the microscope begins. Which of the two has the greater view?" - Hugo

"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened." - Churchill

Could you please provide evidence for this assertion?

You seem now to be arguing that:

a) There is evidence of an Exodus of Hebrews from Egypt.

and

b) The reason there is no evidence is that Egyptians didn't note their failures.

Huh?

Apparently, it does not seem self-evident to many historians.

__________________
"All your bias are belong to us." Ara Pacis
"A witty saying proves nothing." Voltaire

Culled from bibleorigins.net:

"K. A. Kitchen (an Egyptologist) speaking of the "absence" of the Exodus in
Egyptian annals :

"And as the pharaohs _never_ monumentalize _defeats_ on temple walls, no
record of the successful exit of a large bunch of foreign slaves (with loss
of a full chariot squadron) would ever have been memorialized by a king in
the temples in the Delta or anywhere else." (p. 246. K.A. Kitchen. _On the
Reliability of the Old Testament_. Grand Rapids. William B. Eerdmans
Publishing Company. 2003)"



Uh, Daffy, if you go back and reread this thread you'll find where I state "absence of evidence for a couple million hebrews in the sinai is rather stark."

Have I said there is evidence for the exodus?
No.
I've simply maintained that egyptian records do in fact speak of pr.w, or habiru, which are likely references to the Hebrews.

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"Where the telescope ends, the microscope begins. Which of the two has the greater view?" - Hugo

"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened." - Churchill

"Likely?" Your own source says otherwise.

No it doesn't.

It acknowledges that hapiru could have been a social designation rather than an ethnic one, but goes on to say the possibility that the Hebrews are descended of one of these social groups can not be excluded.



And you're welcome for the evidence supporting my assertion (the Kitchen quote).

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"Where the telescope ends, the microscope begins. Which of the two has the greater view?" - Hugo

"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened." - Churchill

A.DIM, it's O.K. to say that you, personally find the Hapiru-Hebrew connection plausible, but it's not O.K. to imply that historians do. That would be a misrepresentation of the science.
It's controversial, there is disagreement.

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"All your bias are belong to us." Ara Pacis
"A witty saying proves nothing." Voltaire

Which is precisely why I agreed with your remark that the identity is uncertain.

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"Where the telescope ends, the microscope begins. Which of the two has the greater view?" - Hugo

"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened." - Churchill

O.K., so when you say that the connection is "likely" are you just expressing your opinion?

__________________
"All your bias are belong to us." Ara Pacis
"A witty saying proves nothing." Voltaire

"I've simply maintained that egyptian records do in fact speak of pr.w, or habiru, which are likely references to the Hebrews."

Yes, an opinion.

__________________
"Where the telescope ends, the microscope begins. Which of the two has the greater view?" - Hugo

"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened." - Churchill

Thanks for clarifying that for me.

__________________
"All your bias are belong to us." Ara Pacis
"A witty saying proves nothing." Voltaire

No trouble; you're welcome.

__________________
"Where the telescope ends, the microscope begins. Which of the two has the greater view?" - Hugo

"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened." - Churchill

IMHO the Ipuwer Papyrus is evidence of a and b.

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(By the way, I hate it that so many papers in the areas of planetary science and geology are not easily avaiable to the dreaded "non-subscribers". It is like they are screaming at me: "YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH". Good, I feel better now.)

I know you are a person who takes his physics seriously, but isn't it said that most great discoveries aren't discovered with "Eureka!" but with, "Hmmm, that's funny." Big Don