Chatroom
 

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Bad Astronomy and Universe Today Forum > Space and Astronomy > Life in Space
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

   

Closed Thread
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 20-April-2004, 04:09 AM
Tuckerfan's Avatar
Tuckerfan Tuckerfan is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Gallatin, TN
Posts: 1,518
Send a message via AIM to Tuckerfan Send a message via MSN to Tuckerfan
Default Another Fellow Claiming to Have Found Evidence of Life

I've only skimmed his site, but he doesn't seem to be too wild eyed about it. He does provide links to the images on NASA's site, and isn't just using cropped versions of them.
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 20-April-2004, 04:53 AM
Squink Squink is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 540
Default

Quote:
Simply put, the "spherules" that have been found on Mars are clearly fossils of a primitive urchin-like echinoderm.
My God, It's full of Starfish!
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 20-April-2004, 04:53 AM
freddo freddo is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 2,228
Send a message via MSN to freddo
Default

I can't view this site in full (I'm at work) but it's better than a woo-woo page that's for sure.

From what I saw the claims and evidence aren't anything new - but his process is far more thorough.
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 20-April-2004, 01:07 PM
Eye-Zee's Avatar
Eye-Zee Eye-Zee is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Unknown. But I can tell you exactly how fast I'm going.
Posts: 135
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by freddo
I can't view this site in full (I'm at work) but it's better than a woo-woo page that's for sure.

From what I saw the claims and evidence aren't anything new - but his process is far more thorough.
Except that he is still using compression errors and pixellation as "data".

It will never stop.
__________________
“The simplest schoolboy is now familiar with truths for which Archimedes would have sacrificed his life.” – Earnest Renan
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 20-April-2004, 02:04 PM
Gmann Gmann is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 774
Send a message via AIM to Gmann
Default

This one is interesting indeed. C2C had a guest this past weekend, Sir Charles Shults, who made similar claims about seeing Sand dollar and Sea Urchin type life forms in NASA pictures. This guy also came off as not being a woo-woo. His site and photos are linked on C2C's site and bring up interesting questions. Are they "proof"? The jury is still out, but he makes a compelling case. Time will tell.
__________________
Those who repeat History are doomed to learn it.
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 20-April-2004, 02:34 PM
TinFoilHat TinFoilHat is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 399
Default

Unless I'm mistake, at least one of the mars rovers has used its RAT to cut an in situ nodule in half, revealing it to have no discernable internal structure whatsoever. This would seem to rule out it being a fossil.

This page looks like a lot of seeing faces in clouds to me.
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 20-April-2004, 04:53 PM
Irishman Irishman is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 1,466
Default

Anybody go through all the pages?

First, credit where credit is due. He starts off with the right attitude. His tone is fairly scholarly, and he is not screaming. He also doesn't begin with accusations of a huge NASA conspiracy to wipe out the fossils and cover it up. He gets points. Plus, it is a fairly ordered presentation - not like the jumble of Enterprise Mission at all.

He also gets points for linking to the original images. And he employs a technique for image enhancement that seems valid to me. This is not staring at a CRT with a magnifying lens.

However, by the end of the pages, his tone has taken on a strident tone, a certainty far above the meager evidence offered. His justification boils down to identifying what seem like repeated patterns over multiple blueberries, and details in suface features. However, when I look at his images and descriptions of the patterns, they greatly exceed my ability to identify the same patterns. He starts drawing lines on the images to enhance them, but I still don't see the features. I think he is overextending and imagining detail. But I could be wrong.
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 21-April-2004, 12:29 AM
Daffy's Avatar
Daffy Daffy is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 853
Default

Toward the end he kind of lost me with the "crab-like" organism. But before that, the duplication of the markings on various rocks was very, very interesting. Is there a non-biological explanation for such duplication?

I sure would like a closer look...
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 21-April-2004, 03:12 AM
Tuckerfan's Avatar
Tuckerfan Tuckerfan is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Gallatin, TN
Posts: 1,518
Send a message via AIM to Tuckerfan Send a message via MSN to Tuckerfan
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TinFoilHat
Unless I'm mistake, at least one of the mars rovers has used its RAT to cut an in situ nodule in half, revealing it to have no discernable internal structure whatsoever. This would seem to rule out it being a fossil.

This page looks like a lot of seeing faces in clouds to me.
Yeah, but is the RAT designed to slice open the nodule in such a manner as to preserve the kind of internal structure which one might find in a fossil? (BTW, it's pretty rare for paleoentologists to hack apart fossils.) If the RAT wasn't specifically designed to do that, then it might very well erase some of the traces.
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 21-April-2004, 06:01 AM
Wingnut Ninja Wingnut Ninja is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Middlebury, VT
Posts: 497
Send a message via AIM to Wingnut Ninja
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Squink
Quote:
Simply put, the "spherules" that have been found on Mars are clearly fossils of a primitive urchin-like echinoderm.
My God, It's full of Starfish!
That's it, you win the internet. =D>
__________________
Neither love nor money makes the world go round.
Unfortunately, we're down to about 17 ounces of the highly unstable stuff that does.
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 21-April-2004, 03:43 PM
Irishman Irishman is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 1,466
Default

If they are fossils, they are rock-replacement. That is, the original material has been replaced by minerals - petrification. Thus the RAT grinding away should not destroy all signs of internal structure. Rather like slicing up a rock like a geode, that has crystals inside. Cutting the thing in half does not destroy the crystals all along the inner wall, only where the blade hits. Grind off part of the rock, the remaining interior surface should still be intact and show any layering from the formation.
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 07-June-2004, 08:56 PM
Darwin442002 Darwin442002 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: chicago
Posts: 14
Send a message via Yahoo to Darwin442002
Default

Gentlemen, 4 Spherules have been ground down by the RAT to show cross section, all are on the site, all 4 show 5 pointed star geometry inside, not easy to spot, but once you see the 1st, & know what you are looking for, the other 3 really leap out at you. :D
  #13 (permalink)  
Old 07-June-2004, 10:29 PM
Doodler's Avatar
Doodler Doodler is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Maryland
Posts: 9,464
Send a message via AIM to Doodler Send a message via MSN to Doodler
Default

I'd agree, faces in the clouds is what he's got.
  #14 (permalink)  
Old 07-June-2004, 11:26 PM
twinstead's Avatar
twinstead twinstead is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Cleveland OH
Posts: 512
Default

Slightly off topic, but I wonder if 50 years from now or so, jewelery made from those 'blueberries' that will be collected from mars will be all the rage.
  #15 (permalink)  
Old 08-June-2004, 12:51 AM
Tuckerfan's Avatar
Tuckerfan Tuckerfan is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Gallatin, TN
Posts: 1,518
Send a message via AIM to Tuckerfan Send a message via MSN to Tuckerfan
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by twinstead
Slightly off topic, but I wonder if 50 years from now or so, jewelery made from those 'blueberries' that will be collected from mars will be all the rage.
I hope it's a lot sooner than 50 years from now!
  #16 (permalink)  
Old 08-June-2004, 01:21 AM
01101001's Avatar
01101001 01101001 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 11,440
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darwin442002
Gentlemen, 4 Spherules have been ground down by the RAT to show cross section, all are on the site, all 4 show 5 pointed star geometry inside, not easy to spot, but once you see the 1st, & know what you are looking for, the other 3 really leap out at you.
Yeah? Like the broken one marked up on Chip Shults' "fossil" site? That one's hilarious.
__________________
0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 ...
  #17 (permalink)  
Old 10-June-2004, 05:51 PM
Plautus Plautus is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 10
Default martian fossil, apparently

Quote:
Originally Posted by 01101001
Yeah? Like the broken one marked up on Chip Shults' "fossil" site? That one's hilarious.


?
  #18 (permalink)  
Old 10-June-2004, 05:55 PM
Darwin442002 Darwin442002 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: chicago
Posts: 14
Send a message via Yahoo to Darwin442002
Default

That is NOT the picture I was referring to, TRY AGAIN
  #19 (permalink)  
Old 11-June-2004, 10:55 PM
beskeptical beskeptical is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 5,060
Default

I dunno, NASA doesn't think so. And I think they would have checked it out.

http://www.space.com/missionlaunches...es_040211.html
__________________
The real news, including science news corporations may not allow on stations they own. http://www.democracynow.org/
  #20 (permalink)  
Old 25-June-2004, 07:00 PM
01101001's Avatar
01101001 01101001 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 11,440
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darwin442002
Gentlemen, 4 Spherules have been ground down by the RAT to show cross section, all are on the site, all 4 show 5 pointed star geometry inside, not easy to spot, but once you see the 1st, & know what you are looking for, the other 3 really leap out at you.
You had better notify NASA of your stunning discovery.

Steve Squyres, in the June 25 press conference, in a question about RAT'ing through Meridiani blueberries, remarked that they've seen no internal structure when they've examined the insides of the spherules -- just as one would expect of concretions.

By the way, there's something about your theory that's been bothering me. Can you really conceive of a 3D shape whose intersection by a plane at an arbitrary angle, always yields a shape with 5-fold symmetry in 2D?
__________________
0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 ...
  #21 (permalink)  
Old 26-June-2004, 01:11 PM
Excelsior Excelsior is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Federation space
Posts: 218
Default

For this absurd claims to be true the entire surface of Mars has to be littered in fossils. We dont have anywhere near this kind of fossil densities here on Earth. So common sense tells us it is all ridiculas.
  #22 (permalink)  
Old 27-June-2004, 10:24 AM
Darwin442002 Darwin442002 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: chicago
Posts: 14
Send a message via Yahoo to Darwin442002
Default

I'm sorry you got the wrong idea, I did not mean to suggest that the stars were all revealed at the same angle, they are not all perfectly symmetrical, the angles are arbitrary,