what if the UFOs are not comming from the other corner of the Galaxy and are really close to us? they could, for example, have been in Proxima Centaury or another close by solar system doing reconaissance or scientific work when they spoted human activity. there could be dozens of civilizations traveling across the Galaxy doing what we would like to be doing if we had the means.

a UFO does not necessarily need to have come from far away. the simple fact that UFOs seem to be small ships in my opinion, points to the idea that they are just small reconaissance ships. just a thought.

IMO If you can hop from Proxima Centauri to here in a small ship on a reconnaisance, you can go much, much farther too, as it would mean you'd be going faster than light (unless a 8.5 year retour trip is just a reconnaisance...).

When talking about traveling these distances, it appears to me (roughly said) that either you can go anywhere or nowhere.

__________________
To the regular visitor of internet bulletin boards it is clear that it's an excellent idea your parents get to choose your real name.

Not necessarily. The navies of the world didn't give up coal depots until the start of the 20th century.

Thanks for the kind words...your description does sound very similar. Was it the same? I'd give a LOT to know!

There's a lot of assumptions playing here. First of all, you assume that The Alpha Centauri star system is "close". Well, compared to the other corner of the galaxy, sure it is, but compared to any form of propulsion that I'm aware of it is very far away.

Obviously, you think the aliens have a new propulsion system, but since you dont know what that entails, we can hardly guess as to whether that makes Proxima Centauri "close".

Secondly, how does someone spot human activity? I suppose by radio transmission. But then, why don't we see any radio transmission from them? If they can spot a radio signal from us, why don't they send one? It's a bit ridiculous to simply claim that they are just hiding themselves from us in the radio band but then send spaceships here for us to see with our eyeballs.

Maybe, maybe not. How do you know? Maybe it's so prohibitively expensive that everybody stays home.

How do they communicate with one another? How come we can't pick-up on those signals?

And if its not that expensive then we must be talking about some radically new physics that we haven't yet discovered or learned how to utilize.

Can you explain what you meant exaclty with that remark?

__________________
To the regular visitor of internet bulletin boards it is clear that it's an excellent idea your parents get to choose your real name.

Sure (and someone can tell me whether or not I'm totally of base on this).

After most navies converted from wood and sils to steel and steam, ships were powered by coal. Any oceangoing vessel could reasonably go around the world without a problem (i.e. assuming they ddn't get unlucky and run headlong into a typhoon or somethign like that), but every ship in the world was limited by the amount of fuel (in this case, coal) that they carried on board. As a result, naval superpowers needed overseas bases to refuel thair ships. Thats what made Hawai'i so special. It's smack dab in the center of the pacific.

Yes, wooden sailing ships could still circumnaviate the world ad nauseam without refueling, but the geopolitical / technological advances of the age made steel and steam a much more attractive option. (and most would argue - a necessity).

The same could be the same for interstellar travel. Considering that we don't know how species 'X' might travel and what their power requirements might be, we shouldn't automaticall y rule out the assumption that space travel might be limited by some sort of fuel requirement.

I agree that a species advanced enough would have overcome that problem, but I also think that we'd never know if we were being visited by that species. No, if someone's going to make a mistake in secretly observing us, it'll most probably be someone who is just getting started themselves.

John

Hewhocaves,

I wasn't talking about fuel requirements. I was talking about the miminum physical time needed to do the round trim (8.5 years, head-on trajectory). That ain't just a reconaissance for me. So they would somehow have broken light speed and done it faster if it is just a reconaissance coming from nearby Proxima Centauri. Given they can brake the speed of light, I assume that you are advanced enough (...) not longer to limit yourself to 4 lightyears instead of, say 3000 lightyears. It would be a bit stupid to break through the borders of physics but only by a small margin. It's like being able to go back in time, but no more than 10 minutes ago. If you can go back in time, the amount should pose less problems than the fact itself.

__________________
To the regular visitor of internet bulletin boards it is clear that it's an excellent idea your parents get to choose your real name.

Yes, I understand what you are saying. However, there is theorey and then there is engineering. Theorey may get you somewhere faster than you could have gotten to before, but it's not the be all / end all. You can't presume that just because you can go FTL that you can go everywhere. Coal ships could go from NYC to Bermuda no problem - easy reconissance. However, going from NYC to Honolulu would have been an entirely different thing.

Do you see what I'm saying now?

John

I see your point. But I believe there is a difference between assuming things existing a bit beyond your technical capabilities (ships going from NYC to Honolulu) but not way beyond (ships crossing the atlantic in 12 seconds); and things a bit beyond your theory but not way beyond, while still breaking that theory (a ship engine propelling a ship for one hour without using any energy source might be possible, but not for years). That's just my opinion. That opinion does not stand in the way of the possibilities of Aliens existing and ever visiting us in the future.
I just used the ship example because I could think of no other that fast

__________________
To the regular visitor of internet bulletin boards it is clear that it's an excellent idea your parents get to choose your real name.

Why assuming than they return to their home planet.
Imagine a vanguard force.They carry some operational bases disguised as asteroids in tow with hundred of small ships.
When arrived on Earth they use ressources available here(biological and other)for their needs.
After they can build underground and underseas bases.

Here something who describe that kind of operation.OK, I know... No proof than that is really happening but that is a logical description of an operation of that kind. :-k
http://www.humanunderground.com/archive/mj12.html
Exerpts.
:-k

Ok, lets stop and think for a while. Lets be reasonable.

A interstellar fleet, with hundreds of "small" ships, travels light years. Lets assume that FTL travel is not possible. For the sake of the argument.
Now then, they travel for years and years, maybe hundreds of years. They have advanced space flight, shields, laser cannons. I'm sure they could grow their own food. So what needs would they have on earth?

What needs would they have for underground and undersea bases? To survey mankind? Why exactly? I doubt we have anything at all they could need.

What could they possibly need from us? I'd be interested to know.

We have satellites in orbit that can see a stamp at ground level. Why would they, a far more technologically superior race, need to send crafts down to buzz around people's heads? If they're coming from space, it's easier to stay in space.

Careful -- that site is choc full of Bravo Sierra.

* For the sake of argument of a "reconaissance"
* because the alternative needs a large part of the universe to be "colonized" by aliens, while the orginal Proxima Centauri argument was understood by me as a "small scale advanced alien race" argument.

__________________
To the regular visitor of internet bulletin boards it is clear that it's an excellent idea your parents get to choose your real name.

Not necessarily--I recently posted a link to a NASA paper that proposes how antiprotons can easily and cheaply be enticed right out of vacuum fluctuations. True, we haven't tried it yet, but the science and the method appear to be sound and well within our reach.

If it works, that would mean that a ship would be capable of drawing energy from empty space at every point along its flight path, rather than have to carry all the energy it needs with it, from its departure point. Like I said, it is still theoretical, but its a sound, scientific theory, not some hair-brained scheme.

Paper here.

And, there's always fusion. Granted, that seems to be a more difficult process to master, but it's accepted science. And again, the fuel source could be the hydrogen atoms of the interstellar medium. I know we use rare hydrogen isotopes presently, but we know that H1 works in stars so a technology should be possible to do as well.

Lol!