Faultline: Can you or can you not accept that this is a case of opinion, not fact? Yes or no.

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"A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong gives it a superficial appearance of being right." -- Thomas Paine

Being intelligent is not a felony. But most societies evaluate it as at least a misdemeanor. -- Heinlein

Creationists make it sound as though a "theory" is something you dreamt up after being drunk all night. -- Isaac Asimov

Could you elaborate on this a "bit"...I don't see the connection, and I don't want to post a response until I'm sure I understand you...

Thanks...

Well, I can't really speak for him, but it's still a matter of belief. "I haven't seen it, thus it isn't there" is the same as saying, "It's out there, I just haven't seen it, but I believe it", in that it's simply a matter of belief.

You can go on and on about this, that, and the other thing. You only have one reference point, and that's this earth. You have one reference point for "higher intelligence", and that's one species. One. No more. To use that as the sole and complete basis for all belief throughout all the galaxy/universe/whatever, is quite simply a matter of pure and complete conjecture.

It is not based on science. It is not based on mathematics. It is simply based on a limited perception, and belief.

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"A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong gives it a superficial appearance of being right." -- Thomas Paine

Being intelligent is not a felony. But most societies evaluate it as at least a misdemeanor. -- Heinlein

Creationists make it sound as though a "theory" is something you dreamt up after being drunk all night. -- Isaac Asimov

I just wanted to bring a few facts to the table for you.

1 We don't know if there is life on locations other than Earth.

2 We can't prove that there isn't life on locations other than Earth.

3 Therefore the simple answer to the original question is that we simply don't know, and therefore respect each others' opinions as at present, you all could be correct!

I have my own opinion which is that it would be foolish to speculate on what type of civilisations are out there as we don't know if there IS any life out there. If we assume that there is, (I can't imagine a universe the size it is with only the Earth being life bearing, though I stress, I could be wrong!) we have no idea if this life could resemble anything on Earth.

Any life bearing location different to Earth will have had a different history to us, therefore its evolution will have been different. Therefore it stands to reason that the life in this location will be very different to life on Earth. For example look at the types of Fish that live under immense pressures deep in the ocean compared to a bear which lives in Siberia. They are very different in size, shape and would not survive in each other's environments.

When speculating - and that's all any of us are doing here, one can't make assumptions without evidence. The only evidence I have with any relevance is in my paragraph above. Anyone who believes in life out there, don't just assume that there are civilisations just like ours, there may well not be. Life out there (if there is any) could be very different and far more diverse to what we are or aren't expecting to find.

Whenever we make new discoveries out in space, they always are different to how we imagined it. To those who don't believe in extraterrestrial life, until we discover it, then I respect your opinion.

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Of all the things I've ever lost, I miss my mind the most!

That's (more or less) the point I was going to make...I just don't understand what it has to do with belief in UFO's. Once Chip answers, I'll have more to say on that...

When I wrote: "believing we are alone is the same as believing in UFOs", it was a short version of: believing (i.e. no evidence) that alien civilizations don't exist because they would be here by now, is the same a believing (again without evidence) that they are here right now (as in UFOs) or are out there but undetected. Both views come down to "believing", and both depend on assumptions rather than data.

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"Insignificant molehill sometimes more important than conspicuous mountain." - Charlie Chan

You're requesting that I accept your oversimpification. That is what I refuse to do.

Opinions can be wrong. I can have the opinion that the sun is Vulcan's blowtorch. It would be my opinion, after all. Opinion and fact aren't exact opposites, as we are often taught in grade school.

At the same time, an opinion isn't necessarily wrong just because it is an opinion. I could have the opinion that the Earth revolves around the sun. Today, I could be shown to be right. A thousand years ago... you know the history.

We have a qurious question. Planets are so darned common it seems from our observations. With 200 billion (give or take a hundred billion) suns in our galaxy, you'd think that some percentage of them would have life. Life can lead to intelligence, and intelligence could lead to civilization, and civilization can (I didn't say must on any of these) lead to colonization of the galaxy (unless you assume it is impossible).

How many civilizations, in your opinion, have come and gone before us? We're only talking possibilities here. Are we the first?

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My son is my universe.

...because they would be here by now...OK...now it makes sense to me...

I'm sure glad I waited for your clarification...

"Here" as in Earth? Galaxy? Universe?


As for the evidense....I believe it could be found, we just don't know how to look for it. It could be everywhere for all we know, and the truth is if anyone knows about intelligent life it would be the government or a small hidden base deep underground somewhere at this point in the game. Because all of us know if that intelligent life was found or contacted all hell would break out here on Earth Because of this it makes you wonder what is kept from the public.

As is said a thousand times here, WE DON'T KNOW! Perhaps one day we will, perhaps we never will, and perhaps we should never know.

For those who voted in this poll, if the only answer is, "we don't know," why vote for any number besides 1?

"Here" as in the galaxy.

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My son is my universe.

Why not it is an opinion poll. Basically the best answer to this type of question when someone else who is equally in the dark, but insists that their opinion is somehow more right is to point out that you don't know I don't know WE don't know this is just what I think... and hopefully be able to follow it up with WHY. Hopefully that WHY is more than "because its obvious” oh boy that always helps.

I said 10,000. WHY? Because like William Thompson wants to accuse me of I am approaching the question with hope and emotion. However, the hope and emotion to MY opinion enters into the number I guessed. The actual possibility of just one or anything I feel has to do with your previous post.

My jury is still out on the possibility of colonization of the galaxy. What I do know is that intelligent life IS possible. Based on that SOME percentage of the stars out there should have life. If there is just us, that is 1 in 200000000000. That’s not rare, that is an exception.

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The saddest aspect of life right now is that science gathers knowledge faster than society gathers wisdom.
--Isaac Asimov

My only vote.

I think Lonewulf will be ready to kill and eat me soon. He'd better call the whole pack first.

Disclaimer: The above statment is meant as a friendly joke. I mean it in the nicest way possible!



But obviously we don't know how many or few intelligent civs share our galaxy now or in the past. We don't know, but it is fun to talk about it. Like I said, I like to talk about the possibilities.

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My son is my universe.

i agree "we don't know" the best answer at this point. any other answer is just as valid as the next given the knowledge & evidence we have right now... lets ask again once we figure out what exists from this end of the galaxy to the other. we'll have a valid answer once we colonize the galaxy.

Popcorn Theory:
Popcorn Theory

Falcon Theory:
Is one possible answer to Fermi's Paradox a lie?

I don't understand your falcon theory. How are we here then? Every bit of life in the whole galaxy was wiped out but us? Once again that doesn't make us a rare occurrence it makes us an exception. It makes us a statistical anomaly.

And as far as the popcorn thing, this is still assuming ETI think like us and act like us.

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The saddest aspect of life right now is that science gathers knowledge faster than society gathers wisdom.
--Isaac Asimov

This is the "most optimistic view possible"?

Glad you know all views possible.

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"A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong gives it a superficial appearance of being right." -- Thomas Paine

Being intelligent is not a felony. But most societies evaluate it as at least a misdemeanor. -- Heinlein

Creationists make it sound as though a "theory" is something you dreamt up after being drunk all night. -- Isaac Asimov