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Reload this Page Life on Face of Mars - Egg on Face of NASA?
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Old 17-July-2005, 11:50 AM
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Default Life on Face of Mars - Egg on Face of NASA?
It's one small step for a bug, a giant red face for Nasa

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FAR from discovering life on Mars, NASA may have put it there. The American space agency believes the two rover spacecraft scuttling across the red planet are carrying bacteria from Earth
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Old 17-July-2005, 02:54 PM
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If proved, the contamination would raise concerns at possible breaches of a United Nations treaty to stop other planets being polluted from Earth.
I don't see the problem. This could turn out to be an even better experiment than originally intended. Just imagine if this life did make it there, thats all the proof we need that life can exist on Mars. Also, if I am not mistaken, I believe that the substance would have to be like waste matter in order to pollute something. I would hardly think of microbes as pollution.
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Old 17-July-2005, 03:14 PM
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Originally Posted by azazul
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If proved, the contamination would raise concerns at possible breaches of a United Nations treaty to stop other planets being polluted from Earth.
I don't see the problem. This could turn out to be an even better experiment than originally intended. Just imagine if this life did make it there, thats all the proof we need that life can exist on Mars. Also, if I am not mistaken, I believe that the substance would have to be like waste matter in order to pollute something. I would hardly think of microbes as pollution.
Surely if Earth microbes could survive 2 years on the moon on Surveyor 3, then they could survive on Mars?
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Old 17-July-2005, 03:23 PM
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How could those microbes survive? I know that it's possible for life to form in extremely inhospitable locations, but the vacuum of space? That's a bit much.
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Old 17-July-2005, 05:51 PM
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Nevertheless, it has happened before.

Also, regarding this UN treaty, how does it affect plans for terraforming?
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Old 17-July-2005, 06:02 PM
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There are actually plans for terraforming? How are they gonna do that?
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Old 17-July-2005, 06:03 PM
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Not official plans. I should have said "possible future plans." Sorry about that.
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Old 17-July-2005, 06:29 PM
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s'allright, but isn't it likely that those microbes would die, if not on their journey, but when they reach mars?
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Old 17-July-2005, 06:36 PM
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Maybe. Maybe not. Microbes have survived in probes sent to the moon. And Mars is far more hospitable.
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Old 17-July-2005, 06:53 PM
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Surely if Earth microbes could survive 2 years on the moon on Surveyor 3, then they could survive on Mars?
It was not proven beyond doubt that the bacteria found in the Surveyor 3 camera were not there due to contamination after it was brought back to Earth.

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Old 18-July-2005, 02:09 AM
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How could those microbes survive? I know that it's possible for life to form in extremely inhospitable locations, but the vacuum of space? That's a bit much.
Many types of bacteria and yeast can be vacuum dried, yet retain viability when introduced to a more favorable environment: lyophilized bacteria.
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Old 18-July-2005, 04:43 AM
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Even if we have sent some bacteria to Mars, and even if they're still viable, how much of a problem will they be? Unless they can reproduce in an extremely cold, low-pressure, oxygen-poor environment with no liquid water, they aren't going to harm anything.
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Old 18-July-2005, 08:55 AM
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Here is an earlier discussion on the subject.
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Old 18-July-2005, 04:03 PM
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Originally Posted by azazul
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If proved, the contamination would raise concerns at possible breaches of a United Nations treaty to stop other planets being polluted from Earth.
I don't see the problem. This could turn out to be an even better experiment than originally intended. Just imagine if this life did make it there, thats all the proof we need that life can exist on Mars. Also, if I am not mistaken, I believe that the substance would have to be like waste matter in order to pollute something. I would hardly think of microbes as pollution.
The problem is that now we may never know if there is or was life on Mars that originated on Mars. Any microbes found, unless they are totally different from any past or present Earth life, could just be contamination.
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Old 18-July-2005, 04:06 PM
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Wouldn't DNA (or RNA) testing clear that up?
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Old 18-July-2005, 04:54 PM
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Wouldn't DNA (or RNA) testing clear that up?
Only if it turns up different base or codon usage in the organisms. If we contaminate Mars, and then find some wierd organism there that uses DNA the same way earth organisms do, it'll be hard to determine whether the bug came from earth on a spacecraft, through panspermia, or evolved on an early wet Mars.
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Old 18-July-2005, 05:18 PM
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OK, it's a nitpick but... "Nasa"? Sure it's an acronym that's pronounced as a word, but writing it as such? It kept distracting me as I'd pause and think "Who's Nasa? Oh, NASA." As I say it's a nitpick but...

When were they found? What are the chances that the bacteria was introduced after the rovers had left the facility? I'd guess that after they left, procedure adherance probably slacked up somewhat or even terminated in some cases.
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Old 18-July-2005, 08:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Squink
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Originally Posted by The Supreme Canuck
Wouldn't DNA (or RNA) testing clear that up?
Only if it turns up different base or codon usage in the organisms. If we contaminate Mars, and then find some wierd organism there that uses DNA the same way earth organisms do, it'll be hard to determine whether the bug came from earth on a spacecraft, through panspermia, or evolved on an early wet Mars.
If some type of testing (genetic or otherwise) positively identified it as a specific known Earth organism, we'd know it was not Martian. Are there a lot of Earth bacteria that we would not be able to positively identify?

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OK, it's a nitpick but... "Nasa"? Sure it's an acronym that's pronounced as a word, but writing it as such? It kept distracting me as I'd pause and think "Who's Nasa? Oh, NASA." As I say it's a nitpick but...
European style, I believe. I've seen it in some newspapers.
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Old 18-July-2005, 11:26 PM
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Wouldn't DNA (or RNA) testing clear that up?
Only if it turns up different base or codon usage in the organisms. If we contaminate Mars, and then find some wierd organism there that uses DNA the same way earth organisms do, it'll be hard to determine whether the bug came from earth on a spacecraft, through panspermia, or evolved on an early wet Mars.
If some type of testing (genetic or otherwise) positively identified it as a specific known Earth organism, we'd know it was not Martian.
You took the post right out of my mouth!
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Old 19-July-2005, 02:49 PM
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Are there a lot of Earth bacteria that we would not be able to positively identify?
I bet there's a lot of Earth bacteria we don't even know about.
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Old 19-July-2005, 06:34 PM
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I bet there's a lot of Earth bacteria we don't even know about.
I do believe you're right.

Time magazine: Saving Biodiversity: Vanishing Before Our Eyes

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By repeated sampling, biologists estimate that as few as 10% of the different kinds of insects, nematode worms and fungi have been discovered. For bacteria and other microorganisms, the number could be well below 1%.
UN FAO: