A question FRASER:
First a statement -
As I understand, planet-earth's evolution must have been seeded by a tiny scrap of crude DNA and gone on from there to what we see around us today. Therefore your bacteria, riding the universe on the back of an asteroid, fits in well with that hypothesis.

The DNA must have come from somewhere; and to THERE from somewhere else; and to THERE from somewhere else; and so on ...; and to THERE from the ORIGINAL source.

Question -
Under what miraculous conditions was the ORIGINAL DNA made?

Cool! B)

there are many legends from the past that parallel modern science quite nicely.

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Damien,
International Baccalaureate Physics teacher
Optics, Photogrammetry and Remote Sensing Instrumentation Major
Admin: Pacific Science and Art

OK
But, but as an afterthought - DNA (as in bacteria) HAD to originate somewhere sometime.

Why not on our little (centre of the universe LOL) planet?

A philosophical, but reasonable. question.

Fraser ... ? :huh:

It's definitely possible, but it's strange that moments after conditions on Earth were possible for life... life arose. It didn't take billions of years, it was pretty much instantaneous. And the earliest life is single-cell bacteria, not some precursor to that. If bacteria was raining down on the Earth for millions of years and then the moment it could get a foothold here, it was off to the races. Subsequent life obviously evolved here, but it really looks like bacteria could have come from out there.

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Fraser Cain
Publisher
Universe Today - Free space news delivered by email every weekday.

then again as we established - life could just about propogate anywhere.

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Damien,
International Baccalaureate Physics teacher
Optics, Photogrammetry and Remote Sensing Instrumentation Major
Admin: Pacific Science and Art

I know, Alice (forgive me); but what I'm getting at is that some time after the Big Bang Fraser's bacteria must have been created from its simpler constituents somehow, somewhere, to get here in Planet Earth (in order for us to be what we are today).

So the questions I am asking are:

(1) How could the original DNA have existed (before evolvement)?; and
(2) Why must life have come from elsewhere (i.e. why not have the evolution done here on earth?

I ask (1) because I believe that even the most primative DNA defies the probability of spontaneous creation (and I am NOT getting into religion here!)

As micro-organisms have been found in such hostile conditions as would have been present in the early days of the earth - surely they could have been evolving for the past 4 billion years since the earth was young.

:blink:

Yes, Red Rooster, I see what you mean, in fact you make quite a plausible argument, as it appears that bacteria and other microbes (eg many world leaders - NOT getting into politics) have been evolving for that time - this has been found in the fossil record in Greenland and in Western Australia...on the question of spontaneous creation - thats a tricky one, a student came up with a blunt, clinical yet sensible answer - "twas a lucky chemical reaction, sir"

Damo a.k.a. Alice :blink:

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Damien,
International Baccalaureate Physics teacher
Optics, Photogrammetry and Remote Sensing Instrumentation Major
Admin: Pacific Science and Art

Alice - I'm getting out of my depth here (hense my HELP! plea);
but I devoured a book by Paul Davis, a few years ago, who addressed this Evolution matter that we are currently discussing and he took us, bit by bit, back to "the primative scrap of DNA" (I think it was a distant DNA relative, like R**) that was the absolute simplest building block that had the sense to do anything for itself.

But even this "simple building block", in his considered and knowledgeable opinion, must have immigrated to earth from space - backing up Fraser's point.

But I can fully appreciate Paul Davis's assertion that it (the R**) HAD to be intelligently designed and created as a "seed" to begin the evolution process.

Referring back to my previous posts - I see no objection to this "design and creation" process being done here, can you? Why, necessarily, some other point in space.

As an aside - IF the bacteria (R**) did come from space - at the speed the asteroid would have been travelling (several thousand kph) it must have originated somewhere from within our own galaxy to get here some 3 billion years ago. IF it originated from another galaxy it would be still travelling.

There's a topic about biological systems evolving from chemical ones here:

http://www.universetoday.com/forum/index.p...p?showtopic=980

You might want to check it out.

Kashi

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Climate Change Australia

i agree, that life could have had its beginnings here, there is really no reason why not - its a tricky one to get one's head around....Definitely check out the thread that kashi has kindly supplied.

It appears quite plausable that early earth had just the right conditions for the systems to turn from chemical to biological with energy (heat and electricity) as a catalyst.

As there is little evidence taht can conclusively point to an answer, I guess both answers are still plausable.

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Damien,
International Baccalaureate Physics teacher
Optics, Photogrammetry and Remote Sensing Instrumentation Major
Admin: Pacific Science and Art

I read that not only might life here on earth come from the stars, but perhaps things like the SARS virus too. See it here.

Kind of radical...but no more than the panspermia idea!

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Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
Albert Einstein

So we could have virus' (which are more likely to come to a planet through space because they can survive harsher conditions) coming to Earth all the time. Virus's that our immune system doesn't know and so doesn't fight it.

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MacTalk - The Australian Apple Community - iPod, iPhone and Mac.

If SARS came from space, doesn't this imply that there are other mammal or human-like life forms out there? There would have to be because SARS survives in mammals.

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Climate Change Australia

all of this is indeed plausible but how to prove it?

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Damien,
International Baccalaureate Physics teacher
Optics, Photogrammetry and Remote Sensing Instrumentation Major
Admin: Pacific Science and Art

Since SARS is DNA based, much like life on Earth, you can't really prove that it's terrestrial or not. It's merely a matter of belief. Especially if you believe in the spore theory.

The only way to PROVE that it might be extra-terrestrial would be to find more of it in space.

Personally, I'd prefer people focus on more worth space theories ... I'd like to be more public money put into space development, but not at the expense of reasonableness.

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Live long enough to see Space!

We can get to space as a species. The above link is information about life-extension (living longer) so that you can personally see a space-based civilization.

The MPrize (a prize to encourage life extension research now contains over 3 million dollars.

what is the spore theory?

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Damien,
International Baccalaureate Physics teacher
Optics, Photogrammetry and Remote Sensing Instrumentation Major
Admin: Pacific Science and Art

I have also read that glycine, an animo acid, was found in space. Hmm....

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Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
Albert Einstein

Another form of energy? Compounds...?

To what are you referring? If you are asking about amino acids, they are the building blocks of proteins, which make up us! There are only 20 (I think) different amino acids that build all the organic life on earth. I do think I read that a synthetic amino acids was made that was different than the regular ones. If it is about the spore theory, I have no idea.

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Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
Albert Einstein

Glycine...? I understand Amino Acid (poquito). Glycine, I can't even begine to define. Unless it is :unsure: like glycerine.

Let me see if I can remember some biology. Acids are made out of carbon, nitrogen, oxygen and hydrogen. There is another element also sometimes found in amino acids. I think glycine is the only amino acid that your body can reproduce on its own. I'm not sure what glycine does in the body, but I do know proteins are need for your cells to function and lots of other stuff I can't remember. I think the discovery was important because it could be evidence of life out there or maybe that life on earth come form out there.

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Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
Albert Einstein

All natural. So maybe, that would be a good find for (genesis) to catch and bring back in a few years. Found in particles of dust? I like the thought I read up earlier about how planets have more to them than of what you can see on the outside and even though Mars looks so Barren and Jupiter is so cold, maybe if we dig al little deeper, we would find more answers to these riddles.

all natural ingredients! but what is the spore theory?

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Damien,
International Baccalaureate Physics teacher
Optics, Photogrammetry and Remote Sensing Instrumentation Major
Admin: Pacific Science and Art