I would hestitate to say that the Mayans had no effect on their environment; they built quite extensive irrigation networks, but these will have suffered from the same problems as all simple irrigation networks;

the dissolved salts in the water supplied build up in the soil irrigated by this system, and then need to be removed; to remove this kind of build up requires more water still, and you start to get diminishing returns.

There is some evidence that Mayan society was damaged by drought; I think it entirely possible that the Mayans themselves were responsible for over-use of water, and caused this drought themselves.

I believe it is better to have continued environmental research and development than expecting low tech societies to solve environmental problems with limited data.

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Orion's Arm . The Starlark . Voices: Future Tense- Novella Contest Issue! . OA Flickr set

OK, I was wrong with that example. But, my point was that we can become a society which has less effect on the environment than we do now, but still retain our technology.

I think that stands true even now.

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Limericks, written by me: http://limericker.blogspot.com

If my memory serves me correctly, the drake equation defines an "intelligent civilisation" as one that is able to produce radio transmissions through space. Hence, according to this definition we have been an intelligent civilisation for around 100 years now.

Personally I think this is a silly measure of intelligence. I agree with the general sentiment here that technological advancement and intelligence are two separate things.

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Climate Change Australia

LET ME THROW THIS DOWN!YOU CANNOT STOP LIFE.LIFE IS EVERYWHERE.THERE ARE OLDER PLANETS THAN OURS EVERYWHERE.THINK OF THE MOST ADVANCED LIFE ON ANY GIFTED PLANET,THEN THINK OF THESE PLANETS AS BEING 1,000,000 YEARS OLDER THAN US,OR 10,000,000 YEARS OLDER.BELIEVE THAT THE MOST ADVANCED LIVING BREATHERS ARE 1,000 YEARS MORE ADVANCED THAN US.HOW ABOUT 10,000 YEARS! THERE IS LOTS OF LIFE OUT THERE,SO MUCH THAT THERE IS A BREATHER OUT THERE RIGHT NOW THAT LOOKS JUST LIKE ME.

OK, cool your blasting jets, Dave! Sheesh! One rule on this forum is no caps, because it's metaphoric to yelling, so you can make a point without the caps (and with better punctuation and diction, too :P )!

They are not totally separate. Intelligence is a prerequisite to technology development. Once manifested the curiosity factor of intelligence drives technology development forming a feedback loop that more closely couples the two and accelerates the enhancement of each. Those 4 million year old stone tools came from technology development.

Even on a Europan world where the stimuli which engender their concept of the universe are much limited compared to ours, intelligence and technology development may cause them to break free from that encapsulated environment.

Although I seldom use all caps, I can see some value in using them to depict various strengths of emphasis. Where/when did the myth of equating total caps to shouting originate? I neither use nor receive them in that manner. In the case of faded printing total caps seem easier to read...but then my eyes are getting quite old.

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For those inclined to oppose human meddling with the structure of the universe or the composition and configuration of objects and groups of objects within the universe, consider:
Whether there is a limit to the magnitude of a modulation of chaos below which order remains invariant? Or, is order but a fiction invented by perspectives applied over finite, however large, time intervals?

It's OK to use caps in phrases to emphasize various points, true, but not the entire post.

Dear Forum Police,
Liberty of expression is a hallmark of intellegence.It's probably no accident that freedom of speech mentioned in the First Amendment...make no law...abridging the freedom of speech.Calls for censorship threaten to erode free speech.
I thank you for your persuasion to my offensive,controversial and obnoxious rant in CAPS.

I say intelligent life is life with the ability to learn something and share that knowledge with others. Then, the only thing you need is time to build up a civilisation, which will automaticly lead to the ability to produce radio waves or any other thing that is needed to call a lifeform intelligent.

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http://members.chello.nl/p.donders6/Sig.pnghttp://members.chello.nl/p.donders6/Tbtw.jpg

"He who asks is stupid for five minutes. He who doesn't will remain stupid his whole life"

And what kind of 'knowledge' would that be, Wouty?

:unsure: NO! or do I mean no. No niether,... Well anyway, no. Technoledgy is not a good tool for measuring intelagance. An advanced life form may not require technoledgy. I beleave that long term evolution may bring a spiecies to a point where they no longer want for technoledgy. On this planet our race for technoledgy has usually been asociated with our want to blow the pajesus out of somebody. Our evolution is short. We are the servivors of several major impact avents. If the dinosours still walked the earth, would we. Its a good question to wunder what would have evolved out of the 'Raptor'. I'm sounding a warning here. Maybe we should stop trying to atract the attention of alians. we might be lunch.

(1) Yes earlier and smarter.

(2) The raptor is believed to have been an efficient killer that needed no technology more than that with which nature outfitted it. It's fatal shortcoming along with that of the myriads of efficient killers evolution has sprinkled around the earth over time is that it could not imagine how many ways the universe could do it in and take the mediating action to ensure its survival.

(3) Sometimes our imagination generates a level of paranoia that can be crippling leading to an overloading of our technology with weapons of war. The contest between the Europeans that first explored the Americas and the aboriginal population should be viewed as a classic case of contact between cultures of widely different technologies. Remembering this event should motivate us to develop our technology to its most optimal levels assuming we can figure out what that is.

Those aliens that would like us for lunch either figuratively or physically will find us whether we try to attract them or not.

My guess is that the smaller versions of raptors, since our ancestors at that time were mouse sized or smaller, accelerated our evolution by thinning the herd of both over and under contemplative "monks". Mosasaurs and their cousins would have taken care of the marine "monks". If any of these ferocious killers returned to the modern scene, they would be the thinees not the thinners. It is somewhat ironic that our most likely deadly enemies are microscopic, a class of predator about which neither the raptor nor the mosasaur likely were aware.

Our continued existence is tightly coupled to technology development.

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For those inclined to oppose human meddling with the structure of the universe or the composition and configuration of objects and groups of objects within the universe, consider:
Whether there is a limit to the magnitude of a modulation of chaos below which order remains invariant? Or, is order but a fiction invented by perspectives applied over finite, however large, time intervals?

Knowledge on how to use objects to do things that would take a lot longer without those objects and the knowledge on how to make those objects. With 'objects' I refer to rocks as in the stone age. These could be used for a lot of things, like making fire, making cutting easier and so on. I think that once one object is utilized in an unnatural way, the rest will follow.

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http://members.chello.nl/p.donders6/Sig.pnghttp://members.chello.nl/p.donders6/Tbtw.jpg

"He who asks is stupid for five minutes. He who doesn't will remain stupid his whole life"

:blink: Never mind the detail.. read the mesage.

What is an intellegence?
Exact defination of Intelligence is abscent in all text books & reference books of Neuromedicine, Neurology and Neropathology. However according to me it is the neuro physiological state of the human brain, particularly of the cerebral cortex[ mostly in frontal ,temporal,cortex] ,which includes culmination of cognitive abilities that includes auditory perception, 3D object recognition, speech perception, languages, skilled/ unskilled behaviour, goal directed planning, problem solving, attention, reasoning, and memory function of the human brain. The intellegence can be tested by IQ test which includes verbal IQ and performance scale IQ[ Revised Wecheser adult and child intellegence scale II] IQ score represent the age adjusted scaling of an individual intellectual performance. There are many other tests for intelligence performance like Raven's test, Revised and wide range achievement test etc. All these tests depend upon ability of communication of a person with the test performer. So by term Intellegence I can say that an intellegent man is able to communicate effectively and resonably in a language that he/she understands and able to speak with a test performer. The neurophysiology of intellegence is a big chapter, involves many neuronal tracts comminications, many nuerochemicals[ GABA, Acetelcholine,endorphinetc], manyreceptors, many synapses, several areas of brain and nucluiie, genes, development of brain perfectly in the utero and in childhood, social and economical environment
DR. Pranab Kr Bhattacharya
Mr Rupak Bhattacharya & Mr Ritwik Bhattacharya
www.unipathos.com

Ummm... Did my intelligent reply to this thread just get deleted? I don't see it here...

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I am Mugs, of the Alien clan of Usa, Nordamerica, a Terran, of Sol. A human.

Whoever says "perception is reality" is daft. It's merely an abstraction, and often not a very good one.