Koko, a gorilla, has used sign language to tell her handlers that she had toothache – and has had the tooth extracted.

Koko used the American Sign Language gesture for pain and pointed to her mouth, prompting treatment involving 12 specialists, including three dentists.

Her handlers said that Koko, a 300-plus-pound ape who has mastered more than 1,000 signs, began telling her handlers at the Gorilla Foundation in Woodside, California, she was in pain.

They constructed a pain chart, offering Koko a scale from one to 10. When Koko started pointing to nine or 10 too often, a dental appointment was made.

http://news.scotsman.com/latest.cfm?id=3317059

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Solar Storm Monitor

The further I get from the things I care about, the less I care about how much further away I get.

jitte, That's a great story about Koko!

I use to play online chess with Koko. I didn't mind being beaten all the time, but when I heard that jokes were being made behind my back to the other gorillas with regards to my openings and pawn strategy, I called it quits. :P

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Pre-Quote: 'To survive one has to experiment. When the environment changes, the traditional way of doing things doesn't work.'

Quote:
"It's the outriders, the organisms that seem to be maladjusted before the change, which are the only ones that survive these changes...in that way a species continues."

Carl Sagan

That's pretty funny, Tom2Mars.

I'm into Othello and usually play Zebra Othello, it's the #3 ranked program in the world.

http://www.radagast.se/othello/zebra.html

__________________
Solar Storm Monitor

The further I get from the things I care about, the less I care about how much further away I get.

jitte,

re- Zebra Othello- Now you've given me another reason to get 'Soft Windows" for my Mac, although the chess game that came with it is sufficient to beat the heck out of me if I move the difficulty bar up.

Keeping in topic, I guess game playing would be another sign of intelligence in animals. I noticed that last week, Ky the killer whale played a game of "Toss The Trainer" and didn't hurt the trainer at all.

10 points to the killer whale!

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Pre-Quote: 'To survive one has to experiment. When the environment changes, the traditional way of doing things doesn't work.'

Quote:
"It's the outriders, the organisms that seem to be maladjusted before the change, which are the only ones that survive these changes...in that way a species continues."

Carl Sagan

No one ever did make any suggestions as to how we would scale intelligence, any suggestions?

We may wish to concentrate on the technological competence component of intelligence with levels asociated with:

1. Extragalactic observations
2. Space travel
3. Colonization within their stellar system
4. Interstellar exploration
5. Planetary modification, building, moving
6. Stellar relocation
7. Galactic configuration control
8. Black hole disassembly
9. Galactic groups through galactic supercluster configuration control
10. Management of cosmological expansion

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For those inclined to oppose human meddling with the structure of the universe or the composition and configuration of objects and groups of objects within the universe, consider:
Whether there is a limit to the magnitude of a modulation of chaos below which order remains invariant? Or, is order but a fiction invented by perspectives applied over finite, however large, time intervals?

Just a couple things Gourdhead, what if they have no interest in space travel? And correct me if Im wrong, but we fall under none of them except maybe space travel, in which we have gone no farther than the moon, unless your counting probes in which case Im not.

Twould be a pity; they won't last long against the many tricks the universe can mindlessly play. Your assessment of our competence is accurate.

Here is an operational concept to get us moving in the right direction.

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For those inclined to oppose human meddling with the structure of the universe or the composition and configuration of objects and groups of objects within the universe, consider:
Whether there is a limit to the magnitude of a modulation of chaos below which order remains invariant? Or, is order but a fiction invented by perspectives applied over finite, however large, time intervals?

How do you know half these things are even possible, or desirable for intelligent life to do? It seems people have a lot of ridiculously ingrained assumptions about (literally) inconceivably advanced civilizations.

Why would I, as a super-intelligent alien, want or need to manipulate a galactic supercluster? Where would I find the energy, or the 1/entropy to do it? In fact, considering that we understand nothing of what would power or what form the capability to do such things would take, and nothing about the environment of intelligence capable of comprehending or weilding that sort of thing, how can we assume anything about the motivation of such civilizations and the path their abilities would take? How do we know they would want to develop capabilities of doing stuff like that?

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http://amssolarempire.blogspot.com

Yes, that is what Im saing, which is why it is so hard to scale intelligence.

Incurable optimism makes them possible. They are desirable in order to avoid extreme vacuums or extreme densities less we (or they) intervene. We are becoming an "inconceivably advanced civilization" and unless the universe acts soon it won't be able to terminate us.

We can move stars by using robots capable of emplacing reflectors for each sufficiently near the hemisphere in the direction we wish to move it (converting the star into an ion rocket engine). Gravitational coupling will bring along its gas giants and other planets. If we can move star systems, by synchronizing the movement of stars, we can move a galaxy (I hope the black hole of each can be brought along via gravitational coupling). By synchronously moving galaxies we can change the configuration of clusters as well as move them. Thus we can proceed up the scale as far as we wish as time permits. Our current level of technology is capable of doing this today, except for black hole unzipping; however, I hope we can improve it by several orders of magnitude.

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For those inclined to oppose human meddling with the structure of the universe or the composition and configuration of objects and groups of objects within the universe, consider:
Whether there is a limit to the magnitude of a modulation of chaos below which order remains invariant? Or, is order but a fiction invented by perspectives applied over finite, however large, time intervals?

....words fail me in trying to express how much more optimistic I am after reading many of these posts. Human beings are not only intelligent, but they define intelligence and that eliminates even the most remote possibility that our intelligence might in actuality be a pseudo-intelligence. That other intelligent entities beyond our ability to even conceive could exist. I had visions of a 1.5 meter X 2.25 meter pulsating snowflake that communicated by thought transference and had come into existence almost simultaneously with the birth of the Universe. I also envisioned asking Visitor Sf what were some of the basics in defining intelligent life On Planet Snowball:
1) the ability to learn from the past
2) the ability to behave collectively in ways that ensure long term survival
3) to have learned to avoid self-destruction
4) the ability to anticipate and avoid natural disasters
5) the ability to intentionally and thoughtfully alter its environment and live
sustainably within it
6) the ability to not only produce exceptional individuals, but for the species
as a whole to move 'forward'
I smiled and said thanks, and then explained how Earthlings define intelligence, primarily through technology, and I was grateful to be able to enlighten a fellow member of the Universe and I know Sf was glad too...... :blink:

"With human intellect, the whole seems to be less than the sum of the parts." D. Grinspoon

Yeah Aries, I think that would work except we really dont qualify for it....

I dunno, does that mean were not intelligent?

Heres a couple I thought of that I think a somewhat intelligent species (like us) would need. This is in addition to Aries post:

1 To have created a language or a standard form of communication
2 To prepare for the future (storing food, education, etc. etc)
3.....Ill get back to you on that....

....this is the picture as I see it. There is only one known fact regarding life in the Universe. It has occurred once. As to intelligence, it means many different things to different people. One basic definition is: the ability to process information. That encompasses a very broad range. (bacteria process information, ie. temp, salinity, etc.) Arthur C. Clark states a theory that machine 'intelligence' is the only true intelligence that exists. And that humans sole purpose in the 'scheme of things' is to develop those machines who will eventually replace them.(not as far fetched as it might initially sound) My personal belief is that we don't if there is a Universal Intelligence Scale, and if there is where would we be ranked? Don't you think it would be in our best interest, and display a degree of intelligence at the same time to assume that our ability to 'create interesting gizmos' compared to the degree of advancement in other areas is certainly no reason to act as if we are the measure of All Things. What do you think? <_<

"Live where you are. Be prepared for anything." K-Pax h34r:

Although I'm not sure what "the measure of all things" means, the way to look at this is in terms of our survival. When dealing with the set of tricks the universe can play, the definition of eminent must include a much larger lead time than otherwise. It's more a case of allowing us to have any place as opposed to having a prominent place in the universe. The pressing need is to ensure that no one in the future has to watch helplessly while the universe mercilessly does in her children, grandchildren, and great grandchildren as well as those of her dearest friends and acquaintences and the entire human species. We must posture ourselves to keep the unavoidable losses to a minimum.

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For those inclined to oppose human meddling with the structure of the universe or the composition and configuration of objects and groups of objects within the universe, consider:
Whether there is a limit to the magnitude of a modulation of chaos below which order remains invariant? Or, is order but a fiction invented by perspectives applied over finite, however large, time intervals?

i think this is likely to happen. If this really happesn i hope it does not occurs like wad it happen on the movie ''planet of the apes'' maybe we can live in harmony with them maybe they know about space too we can discuss each others point of view and learn more things

....by 'measure of all things' I was referring to the 'rating' of other intelligence. The implications being self-evident. Regarding 'tech' advancements for preservation and continuing existence of Earthlings, advancement of knowledge, systems to improve conditions on the planet for all, it has unlimited potential. It is the 'prostitution' aspects that are troublesome to me. Is there a rational limit to the number of functions of a cell phone, compared to channeling those same energies and resources into more 'productive', meaningful areas? (opinion) :huh:

"The Earth provides enough for everyman's needs, but not everyman's greed." M. Gandhi

Aries, you said, “Is there a rational limit to the number of functions of a cell phone, compared to channeling those same energies and resources into more 'productive', meaningful areas?”

It seems to me that one of the most productive and meaningful things that humans do is to com-municate with each other. The energies and other resources used by cell phones are very minis-cule compared to traveling to see another person by airplane, automobile, train, bus, or bicycle. Even walking is probably more resource intensive given the required food, footwear, and path maintenance. Television, movies, even radio use much more in the way of resources.

Writing and mailing a letter is much more resource intense than communicating by cell phone.

What would be more productive and meaningful than human communication?

Not that I would advocate devoting all of our resources to manufacture and maintenance of cell phones and giving up on personal visits, movies and books.

As for “prostitution,” I’ve never been a prohibitionist.

Bob

....your point is very nicely made and acknowledged. Obviously, value judgements are in the 'eye' of the beholder, and every eye 'sees' through a slightly different lens. Let us hope that does not change. Your post does bring up an interesting question, at least in my mind, and the question is: people who study human communication say that(my figures are 'rough approximations' from memory): body language=55%; tone of voice=25%; actual content=20% regarding how we actually convey our 'meaning'. Assuming this is true, it would seem that either some adjustment regarding the way we convey meaning has emerged(replace body-language) or that communicating itself has taken on another meaning. The only 'problem' I have with c-phones is the fact that, if someone wants or needs to have a telephone conversation in public, why must I be subjected to it. If I wanted to be involved in c-phone conversations I'd have one.(also, I'm sorry but everytime I hear a little tune or see a vibration and someone immediately reach for their phone, it reminds of a lab rat trained to react to a given stimuli. No offense to anyone, that's what I see....... :blink: )

Careful what you invent, it may end up inventing you..... :unsure: