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Old 09-August-2006, 11:52 PM
doctrellor doctrellor is offline
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Default Amino Acids from cryovulcanism?

I am curious, since Cryovulcanism spews out Ice (H2O) and an aqueous solution of Ammonia sulfate (NH4)2SO4

but when H20 + (NH4)2SO4 -> H2SO4 (Sulfuric Acid) + NH3, and on the surface, it would just freeze

what I was hoping for was a source of sulfur for Amino acids, especially Cystine (C3H7NO2S) and Methionine (C5H11NO2S)

question: Any ideas on breaking down Sulfuric acid for Amino acid production
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Old 27-August-2006, 09:53 PM
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Dr Nigel Dr Nigel is offline
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Oh, boy, that's some pretty tricky chemistry.

First off, you don't specify a temperature range. It would be helpful to know the kind of temperatures you're thinking of.

Second, although aqueous ammonium sulphate can break down to ammonia gas and sulphuric acid, (NH4)2SO4 is actually quite stable in aqueous solution at room temperature, so I cannot envisage this breakdown happening at even lower temperatures.

Third, a pointer on terminology. Cystine is actually a dimer of the amino acid cysteine, so watch out for getting them mixed up.

Reduction of sulphur is difficult for organic life. Reducing a sulphate (in which the oxidation state of the sulphur is +6) through the various intermediate oxidation states to cysteine (in which the oxidation state of the sulphur is -2, equivalent to hydrogen sulphide gas) takes a lot of work. Purely from an energetic point of view, it looks unlikely.

Having said that, there probably is some organism somewhere that does this, I just don't know enough about sulphur metabolism in unusual microbes to be able to give a definitive answer.
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Last edited by Dr Nigel; 13-October-2006 at 08:10 PM. Reason: Correcting "+7" to "+6" for sulphate oxidation state
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Old 04-October-2006, 12:44 AM
doctrellor doctrellor is offline
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cool, thx

since cryo-volcanoes seem too cold to do any good for what I wanted to do, then I guess hydrothermal vent systems and an outgassing of H2S might be better due to heat, or H2SO4 breaking down

as far as temp, I am thinking fairly warm due to the vent system, a mix of organics, outgassing H2S and maybe some FeS
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Old 13-October-2006, 08:23 PM
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Dr Nigel Dr Nigel is offline
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It is established that hydrothermal vent systems at the sea floor can and do support life based solely on chemical oxidation / reduction reactions (i.e. with no input of energy from sunlight). I'm sure there's plenty of literature on the field, but I don't know any references since it is not really my area of expertise.
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