Imagine that the Earth was shrouded in a thick, permanent cloud cover, like Venus, only without the greenhouse effect and pressures? Imagine that the cloud cover was total and permanent, all over the planet.

Would the human race be at a similar level of development today under those conditions?

We know that man has always gazed at the clear night sky and wondered about the inky blackness punctuated by bright pricks of light, the shiny moon, the wondering planets, spectacular comets and meter showers and the golden ball of light during the day. Whole mythologies and systems of worship had evolved from these celestial mysteries over millennia, which lead to societal changes and intellectual pursuits.

Earth's clear skies enabled us to see into infinity, into a vastly different realm then our familiar Earth. Once telescopes were invented and trained at the heavens, it lead to a renaissance in thinking and understanding of our place in the world and the universe.

But if our skies were always clouded over, forming a visual barrier to the universe at large and its processes, would we even know anything about what lies beyond? Would our intellectual and technological development be retarded/slowed as a consequence? Would the early mariners have been able to navigate & explore the 'new world'? What would our society look like today?

I don't think it would have much of an effect on us as an evolving species, despite that lovely scene in 2001:ASO with Moon Watcher. But I do think it would have an effect on us as a cultural species. I am currently witting a short story where this is the case, and man decides to take a specially made air craft, with a primitive air scoop, and pierce the 'up'. he has some latest technology, supplementary oxygen, a heater and an artificial horizon. I hope to finish it.

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The planet would be a lot cooler, because the albedo would be that much higher. Also there would be no astrologers, thank space.

But the science of astronomy would have started when the first 'planes flew higher than the clouds. I expect they would rapidly go through a geocentric and a heliocentric phase before realising that there are untold gazillions of stars and galaxies.

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With a permanent cloud cover, you'd have no astronomy and much of the impetus that it gave general science during the ages. As for flying above the clouds, there is no guarantee that aircraft would ever be developed that could do that (depending on the ceiling and depth of cloud cover.

With a solid, deep cloud cover, I can easily see a world in which the sciences never develop past the bronze age or so. The astronomical calendars for determining the Solstices and equinoxes, the ability to navigate at sea (and the consequent exploration and development THAT brings), and a host of other crucial technology drivers along the development of a technological civilization simply would never have existed. From a more "fuzzy" point of view, the Sun and the Moon and the stars have driven human development. Knowing the Sun moved in its path through the sky in a pattern which was predictable and linked to the seasons led to methods to track and predict that movement. The Moon and the stars were sources of wonder, leading to development of devices to view and monitor them. Astronomy was a driver in the development of mathematics, as astronomers (many of them mathematicians) sought to describe mathematically what they saw, particularly the movements of the planets.

Back to the aircraft. Presuming that you got as far as developing some type of flying machine (itself not a given, but if you did get that far, lets start with a balloon), you have to have someone who 1) believes that there MIGHT be something up there to see, and 2) who manages to build a balloon large enough and with enough lifting ability to get above the cloud deck. Getting a balloon up through a thick cloud layer, particularly if there are convective clouds around, becomes a dangerous way of exploring the heights.

A heavier than air craft is an extremely unlikely candidate for the first penetration of clouds in this case, for a few reasons. First, unless the clouds are rather high, you aren't going to develop large aircraft capable of getting very high in the first place. Secondly, until you do that, and develop the instrumentation necessary to safely fly under such conditions, you aren't going to be able to safely fly into the clouds to get above them. Early aircraft were developed and flown in clear weather, and only then did instruments, etc., get developed to fly (and navigate) them in poor visibility (to include night flying to some extent). Aircraft had to be developed with the performance (range and time aloft primarily) to make this a factor before any solution was developed.

Mike

...so you never read Isaac Asimov's "Nightfall"????? Same thing, just the opposite, with constant sunshine.

Probably not, can't really remember, however I was interested to hear what others thought the knock-on effects would be from such a situation. Mike_c130 makes interesting points.

I think much of the 'inspiration' for mathematics to evolve would still exist:
(all else being equal) there would still be regular tides, seasonal cycles, etc.

What would be VERY interesting, is what kind of explanation they would come up with

Once they discovered outer space, the cultural impact would be huge, I imagine.
If Galileo and the likes were considered a threat by religious leaders,
imagine the impact if nobody had ever even suspected there was anyting else beyond Earth!!!

Might be comparable to us discovering a parallel universe just around the corner...

I'm guessing that for this scenario, the temperature is supposed to be more or less the same, and there is reasonable food production possible from diffused sunlight. The idea is about the specific effects of not being able to see much of the sky through cloud cover.

Many sciences might not be directly affected by the cloud cover. Before balloons or heavier than air flight are developed, there still could be development of ballistics. Ocean navigation wouldn't advance, at least until radio beacons or some other non-celestial method become available. The moon and sun might be inferred both due to tides, and because of the changes in light levels. Scientists would notice that weight varied between equator and poles. The Focault pendulum would still work. So, they might be able to determine the Earth's rotation. I could imagine where scientists might infer a universe consisting of the Earth, moon, and sun, up until the time they could see above the clouds.

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Disclaimer: Avatar is not an official NASA image and does not imply any specific interplanetary or interstellar capability.

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If we're talking same earth and cloud cover to the point where we still have daylight, but no clear night skies to star gaze - I think we'd still have pursued flight and at some point would rise above the clouds and inspire questions.

However our historical belief system would likely be more inclined to worshiping earthbased such as the water god and wind god - things we can't control rather than looking to the heavens. Might have been harder to make a specific calander as well.

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Mathematics would develop more slowly, as much of it came from calculating positions of stars and planets. Or sense of time would also be less exact, with no sunrises or sunsets, sundials, and no precise way to tell equinoxes, etc. Navigation would be much more difficult, even after the invention of magnetic compasses.

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"If this were play'd upon a stage now, I could condemn it as an improbable fiction."
Shakespeare, Twelfth Night
Illuminati's Razor-The most complicatedly evil answer is usually the most correct answer. - Fazor
"Every book is a children's book if the kid can read." - Mitch Hedberg
"Distance doesn’t matter much in space, where if you just start a thing off with the right kind of shove, sooner or later it will get where you want it to go." -Frederik Pohl, Mining the Oort

Ha! Come to the UK we are perm covered in cloud for 9 months of the year

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'The eye can only see what the mind is prepared to accept'

A Christian once told me that before the flood the earth was covered in a fog.
There was no direct sunlight.
God condensed the fog into water and caused the flood,the sky became clear
and rainbows became possible in the direct sunlight.

He was a very clever man (electronics engineer) but I am still an atheist.

Aircraft and radar can look over or through the clouds.

Things would be much the same but delayed a little.

You managed to get 'beyond the cloud cover' rather well, though

Earliest possible direct view of stars would be in late 1783, when the Montgolfier brothers flew their balloon. Actually, high mountains above the cloud level might allow some climbers to see them, so someone living in the Himalayas or the Andes would be the first.

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"If this were play'd upon a stage now, I could condemn it as an improbable fiction."
Shakespeare, Twelfth Night
Illuminati's Razor-The most complicatedly evil answer is usually the most correct answer. - Fazor
"Every book is a children's book if the kid can read." - Mitch Hedberg
"Distance doesn’t matter much in space, where if you just start a thing off with the right kind of shove, sooner or later it will get where you want it to go." -Frederik Pohl, Mining the Oort

It isn't?!?!?!

Geez. I need to get out of Seattle more often.

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The views expressed are the febrile product of an overactive imagination of a person who in shadows sees the gyrating Elvis-like ghost of Leonid Brezhnev.

I was astonished enough to get like five sunny days in a row in January this week, so no complaints here for the time being.

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Not directly related to the question,
but I have often thought about a somewhat similar scenario:
what if Earth had a habitable sister planet?

Actually, I will open a new thread on this one

A civilization that's not able to see the stars? That just not cricket.

But it might be Krikkit.

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"What you think you thought you saw you did not see." Agent J, MiB - Manhatten Bureau

People would still want to see what lies or if anything does lie beyond the thick cloud.