Why would they do that? Why would they bother?

Maybe its no 'bother' to them. Maybe they want a military training exercise. Maybe they are just xenophobic. Maybe they want to destroy any potential competition. Maybe we could never understand their motives. There are a gazillion possibilities many of which we might never think of, with our simian thought processes.

I am not saying that this is likely. I am saying that a true assumption of life being commonplace would mean that a cost benefit analysis of deliberately making one self known in a unknown forest, (our local part of the galaxy,) would seem to indicate that we should sit down and shut up till we know more. Plain old common sense.

BTW breaking up the radio telescope would be likely... but unfortunate,... since it would be at that point that we would definitely need to know much more about our local neighbourhood.

My simian thought processes can't see the point of such an act. If they have the technical know-how to travel between the stars, then the universe is their oyster (so to speak). They would get a lot more by ravaging our (or their) own asteroid belts and other such rocky/gaseous resources.

Um... didn't you see the four (out of a gazillion ), possibilities I mentioned?

Yes... if all they want is rocks... they probably have their own nearby asteroids.... and Denebian oysters...

The fact that you wouldn't want to go and terrorise, destroy, enslave, anal probe, or commit general mayhem in nearby systems only goes to show that we all can be proud of you..... It doesn't say anything about whether or not some alien species might want to.

Risk analysis says if you don't have a clue about your neighbours and their motives don't say hello till you do....

I used to think that discovering ET would be a great thing. Now I'm not so sure. In all of our existence, we have only known ourselves to be the most intelligent & dominant species ever known. I think if we discovered a more advanced alien (or they reveal themselves), it would have profound effects on our psychi. I think we will feel vulnerable. We would know that we could be annihalated if they wanted us to be. Just like we can stomp on an ant pile for no reason. This mentality would then lead to chaos and anarchy. So I'm starting to think it might be best to not make contact.

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Well, I can also see a possibility where they might want to enslave our womenfolk for their sexual gratification, as one of those gazillion possibilities, but that would be just as pointless for serious consideration...

Why would they come here at all? Crossing stars is a massive undertaking; if anyone has the capacity to do that, nothing we do is going to be any threat to them.

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"If this were play'd upon a stage now, I could condemn it as an improbable fiction."
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Illuminati's Razor-The most complicatedly evil answer is usually the most correct answer. - Fazor
"Every book is a children's book if the kid can read." - Mitch Hedberg
"Distance doesn’t matter much in space, where if you just start a thing off with the right kind of shove, sooner or later it will get where you want it to go." -Frederik Pohl, Mining the Oort

Well, I could do that!!.....

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~~Phlash~~

Unknown objects are operating under intelligent control... It is imperative that we learn where UFO's come from and what their purpose is..."

Admiral Roscoe H. Hillenkoetter Director, Central Intelligence Agency 1947-1950

Um... perhaps I made a mistake in taking a light-hearted tone on what could be a very serious subject. I do not consider that any of the possibilities that I mentioned are out of the question. OK.... I was joking about the anal probes... and the Denebian oysters...

The military one is also a bit unlikely... but not impossible. Those four were just of the top of my head.... there truly are many possible reasons why a alien species may wish us harm.

It is often said (as a sort of religious chant) that a truly technologically advanced species would be enlightened and beneficent. (Assuming that only a technologically advanced species would have the wherewithal to build interstellar craft.... which is an assumption that can be argued against...) I personally find it amazing that people as worthy of respect as Carl Sagan and many others can, (or did,) hold such an unjustified view.

There is nothing inherently moral in advanced technology... just a modicum of intelligence, a society that in some way, (it doesn't need to encourage it...,) allows for the possibility of scientific advancement, and oodles of time will get you there. Considering that the universe has been around for 13 plus billion years, and 3rd gen stars for most of that time, statistically it is extremely unlikely that any co-existent species will be anything other than at least millions of years different in their stage of advancement.... irrespective of the as-yet-unknown likely period for life beginning.

I will agree that it is possible (and perhaps even likely) that advanced technology societies don't last long because they manage to annihilate themselves.... (we are a case in point perhaps)... but unless it is invariably so, it still may leave a large number of star faring species co-existent.

It is certainly possible to imagine societies that are semi-static for long, even staggeringly long, periods, (perhaps for overwhelmingly strong biological reasons for instance), but that time scale still would allow for massive technological differences.

Now you can say that this doesn't seem a matter for serious consideration... but if so, could you please point to the errors in my argument.

NoCleverName: Yes to us it would be a staggering, unlikely investment of our resources... but it may not be so to some other species. And as to whether or not we are a threat... now, or in their estimation of the possible future, that may not be the reason they wish us harm... they just might like a clean house without vermin... who knows. (And that is merely one of those gazillion (love that word) possibilities.

Think about it.... if nanotechnology and robotics and all the other gee-whiz technologies came to fruition, (even just a couple,) then any of us might in the far future have the capability (and time) to go relativistically off to nearby systems.... and at that point we might know quite a bit about them.

Now imagine redneck Billy-Joe with a high tech bazooka off 'hunting' the local systems for sport... unlikely yes.... impossible... no. And if it can be imagined... it likely has happened in a universe this big and old. Hopefully not now... or here...

You seem to have expanded your argument somewhat from your original statement:

Which is what I was responding to. Their motivation to 'ravage' our planet still seems rather tenuous.

Nah Doc... I haven't expanded beyond what I first said... look at my first post in this thread.... perhaps you missed it? All I have done is fill in some detail.

The ravage word was chosen for its light heartedness... but read my first post... I am not joking... I feel disgusted when someone has the hubris to decide for a whole planet that they can sing out to the cosmos 'because everyone out there is bound to be a sweetheart'.

I come form a land down under... and many of us joke a bit... maybe too much... but I am serious about this.

Sorry Clint, I initially missed your post... You are of course entirely correct. I was simplifying, and perhaps exaggerating. All of the speculation about frequency of space faring civilisations is extremely speculative until more data arrives. (Hopefully not in the form of a 'ravaging' hoard )

But as you seem to agree.... that doesn't really change the point that we should be more cautious than bold until we know more.

I disagree! We have 'ravaged' our own planet for years, and are still doing so. Rain forests have/and still are being depleted. The whale and other ocean mammals are being needlessly slaughtered, as it the tiger and many other species. The above examples are backed by multi-million $$$ industries, fuelled by greed and profit!

I would think that the most unlikely reason any alien species would want to travel light years to get here, would be to greet us with a garland of flowers and a handshake!

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~~Phlash~~

Unknown objects are operating under intelligent control... It is imperative that we learn where UFO's come from and what their purpose is..."

Admiral Roscoe H. Hillenkoetter Director, Central Intelligence Agency 1947-1950

The astronomers would be smart enough to run and hide before the surviviors could do anything.

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"The only way to explore the universe is to go and look." - Brian Cox
Well, the best way to find out is to go there and, find out. - Raven's Cry
'Evolution and science are one thing, but you don’t mess with Yoko Ono. Everybody knows that. ' - 386sx

Or they may send an SOS signal into space seeking help...

And then we'd have something like Godzilla vs. Mothra.

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Rovers forever! - ToSeek
"The only way to explore the universe is to go and look." - Brian Cox
Well, the best way to find out is to go there and, find out. - Raven's Cry
'Evolution and science are one thing, but you don’t mess with Yoko Ono. Everybody knows that. ' - 386sx

Let's think this through. Are best realistic speculations suggest the following parameters:

A) superluminal transits are unlikely
B) a colonizing generation/world ship would be massive, but not implausible
C) a colonizing generation/world ship may need to beging decelerating in advance of entering a solar system
D) Our random EM noise is not speculated to be indistinguishable from noise within a short distance (a couple lightyears or less)
E) We are not currently broadcasting a brighter radio signal that would serve to let someone there is a civilization already here or one that includes approach protocols.

Based on those assumptions, conflict is likely to result with first contact. It's most likely that if an alien species contacts us, it will be because they have decelerated into this system without realizing we were here and no longer have the capability to pass us by. Even if we manage to have peace initially, there will eventually be competition for resources.

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"What you think you thought you saw you did not see." Agent J, MiB - Manhatten Bureau

Whatever the cost, even a bit of ravishment, is going to be trivial assuming we survive, because we will now know that various technological methods are possible for travel, or defence, and will be able to develop them ourselves, especially if the scientists aren't killed.

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plenty of woo, at the hotel hoagaland...

How do we know we are intelligent? Our intelligence is based on comparison to other life forms on this planet such as dogs, fish, birds etc.. What if our smartest person - who knows who that is but lets just use Stephen Hawking as an example - was 10000X dumber (lack of better word) than their dumbest person.

WalrusLike, I totally agree with your comments. Who knows how ET's will be. They could be hostile and ravage us for who knows what purpose. This will always be speculation, fun to talk about, but speculation.

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