Well guys this is Narender from India...1st of all Sorry if its a wrong question for bautforum..

Its just about a religious plus technological question and am looking for your views !

Whats your opinions on Hindu ancient mythology ?
See I have researched this topic for years frankly and not sure how to take it..
There are both positive and negative points :-

Positive :-
1. Planets gravity affection on bodies ....
2. Aliens theories.. ( Probable assumptions because we don't know gravity fully and as its a universal force so nothing is rejected ..it can affect movements to any extent..provided there is some big backup- " I mean a huge mass we can't see which exerts its force - imaginary for sure ; but just taking it as a example say what if " and its getting intermingled with the planetary forces. I mean there is every rational chance ...If nothing to accept then still nothing concrete to reject..
(Then why don't they come...well there are different theories...for that....which are right on their own platforms..)


Negative:- ( fit to all others too )
1. Fantacy created by people ( better say then rulers for whatever reasons which got twisted with flavors of the time by generations..
2. As the god concept is just based on a kinda fear...Like when one can't do anything on his own on certain factors or things then obvious reply is that there is some supreme force who is doing it all etc etc...



Well I am not asking question on what is God ( or what the joke it is ... ).
or what is conscious, space, time...I have the answer..but this Aliens concept is something I am confused about...
Any Opinions !

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LOST

Welcome, Narender.

I'm not sure I understand what you're asking. What factor of Indian mythology do you want us to comment on?

I don't know enough about Indian mythology to make any informed statements about it. But I do know that there's no evidence of any alien visitation.

A lot of people have tried to make one ancient myth or another sound like a description of alien visitation, without a shred of proof. Their reasoning seems to be: "aliens come from the sky, gods (usually) come from the sky".

Hmm, and storms come from the sky, rain falls from the sky, the objects that give light are in the sky. All the things a culture might consider important have to do with the sky.

Another common line of thought for those trying to suggest an alien/gods connection is that primitive people would be in awe of those more powerful than themselves, who could do things that less developed humans couldn't accomplish.

Well, we all grow up as children, surrounded by beings more powerful than ourselves, who inspire awe and sometimes fear, and who can do things we (as children) can't do yet. They're called adults.

So I think there's nothing to the alien visitation idea. Myth alone isn't really proof of anything. If we found something solid, something tangible to suggest that Earth had actually been visited by aliens, then I'd give the concept some consideration. At the moment, however, there's nothing but entertaining stories.

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"If this were play'd upon a stage now, I could condemn it as an improbable fiction."
Shakespeare, Twelfth Night
"The Mayan symbol for "book" looks a lot like a triple hamburger, but I've never seen them claiming it as proof the Mayans had Big Macs." - KaiYeves
"Distance doesn’t matter much in space, where if you just start a thing off with the right kind of shove, sooner or later it will get where you want it to go." -Frederik Pohl, Mining the Oort

Knowing very little about Hindu myth, I can't really give an informed opinion.
However, Vimanas, great flying ships in Hindu folklore, do figure prominently with people who claim aliens visited Earth, and interacted with ancient cultures.

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Angel of the Abyss
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"I am Ripper...Tearer...Slasher...Gouger. I am the Teeth in the Darkness, the Talons in the Night. Mine is Strength...and Lust...and Power! I AM BEOWULF!"

Am I the only one who's slightly bugged at the proportions of the image in the OP?

Jupiter is being shown as larger than the sun!

It's foreshortening.

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"What you think you thought you saw you did not see." Agent J, MiB - Manhatten Bureau

Hi Narender.

I'm of the opinion that if aliens visited earth in the past, the Hindu mythologies might well be records of their presence; Likewise with other ancient mythologies.

The Vimanas, as was pointed out, are the primary examples of advanced technology which, to ancient astronaut proponents, constitutes circumstantial evidence in support of the alien hypothesis.

Indra showing up with his missles would be needed to convince naysayers.

I prefer to think of the "gods" of ancient civs as physically present flesh and blood beings, just as the records are written.

History becomes Legend; Legend becomes Myth.

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"Where the telescope ends, the microscope begins. Which of the two has the greater view?" - Hugo

"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened." - Churchill

That would be assuming the Vimanas are examples of advanced technology instead of examples of human imagination.

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The Leif Ericson Cruiser

Of course.
After all, assuming the Vimanas are simply examples of human imagination does nothing for ancient astronaut hypotheses.

Were we to be reading these tales only a hundred years ago their depictions of arial craft and weapons could be nothing more than imagination; we ourselves didn't possess such technology.

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"Where the telescope ends, the microscope begins. Which of the two has the greater view?" - Hugo

"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened." - Churchill

Oh yeah, I meant to include this for those interested in the depictions of Vimanas:

Vimanas.

How wonderfully imaginative!

__________________
"Where the telescope ends, the microscope begins. Which of the two has the greater view?" - Hugo

"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened." - Churchill

"When legend becomes fact, print the legend."

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"What you think you thought you saw you did not see." Agent J, MiB - Manhatten Bureau

Which would be a refreshing change of pace, because that would be the real evidence to support your beliefs. You have so far managed to provide none in any thread where the subject has come up.

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Or better yet...

When legend becomes fact, quit calling it legend.

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"Where the telescope ends, the microscope begins. Which of the two has the greater view?" - Hugo

"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened." - Churchill

How many times do I have to tell you, weatherc, that if I had evidence of aliens visiting earth I'd have more important audiences to share it with?
Not that I don't greatly respect the denizens of BAUT, but there would be bigger fish to fry.

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"Where the telescope ends, the microscope begins. Which of the two has the greater view?" - Hugo

"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened." - Churchill

I would just hate for someone new to the forums, such as narender, to be fooled into thinking that your beliefs are based on any sort of objective fact, when they are not. It should be made clear from the outset that your opinion regarding aliens visiting ancient earth is just that: an opinion, with no objective evidence to support it. Your opinion that aliens visited the ancients carries about as much weight as my assertion that the best color is green; in other words, none.

You are entitled to believe whatever you like. However, since this is a science board, it doesn't matter what we believe, but what the facts are.

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Narender asked for opinions, no?
To me this indicated an awareness that there are no "facts" regarding ancient astronauts.

After my greeting him/her, my first statement made it clear that "I'm of the opinion..."

Pay attention.

And disbelieve whatever you like; you too are entitled.

__________________
"Where the telescope ends, the microscope begins. Which of the two has the greater view?" - Hugo

"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened." - Churchill

If that ever happens, we will.

__________________
"If this were play'd upon a stage now, I could condemn it as an improbable fiction."
Shakespeare, Twelfth Night
"The Mayan symbol for "book" looks a lot like a triple hamburger, but I've never seen them claiming it as proof the Mayans had Big Macs." - KaiYeves
"Distance doesn’t matter much in space, where if you just start a thing off with the right kind of shove, sooner or later it will get where you want it to go." -Frederik Pohl, Mining the Oort

Good. So you agree there is no evidence that Vimanas are examples of advanced technology.

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Disclaimer: Avatar is not an official NASA image and does not imply any specific interplanetary or interstellar capability.

The Leif Ericson Cruiser

No, I agreed it would be assuming Vimanas are examples of advanced tech in order for them to be considered circumstantial evidence.
My next statement after "of course" explains why, but you left that part out of your quote.

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"Where the telescope ends, the microscope begins. Which of the two has the greater view?" - Hugo

"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened." - Churchill

I think, as often, the simple explanation is the much more likely one:
humans have always tended to explain the things they don't understand with some supernatural power.

Many of those not-yet-understood things or processes were caused by or related to planetary/astronomical laws and processes,
like wind & weather, tides, seasons, day/night, etc. that could just not be explained at the time.
However, all these could be observed to happen in certain correlation to the movement of sun, moon and stars.

So it's not really surprising many religions and ancient myths located their gods in the 'heavens'
(which, with some imagination, makes some of them sound like alien visits)

By the way, if you ran a statistical analysis
I bet you would find just as many gods and mythical beings placed underground,
beneath the sea, on treetops or mountains, in certain plants, animals, diseases, etc...

So, do you or do you not think there is evidence that Vimanas are examples of advanced technology? If you do, please present your evidence. Remember, that isn't your interpretation of stories.

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I say there is an invisible elf in my backyard. How do you prove that I am wrong?

Disclaimer: Avatar is not an official NASA image and does not imply any specific interplanetary or interstellar capability.

The Leif Ericson Cruiser

Actually, the story goes back to an ancient festival where they got trippy and made up stories to explain the flying embers in a bonfire at night.

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"What you think you thought you saw you did not see." Agent J, MiB - Manhatten Bureau

The only evidence for Vimanas is textual.
Do I think these descriptions can be considered examples of advanced tech?
Certainly, given the possibility for ancient astronauts visiting earth.
It seems a matter of perpsective.
Do I view them as definitve or factual?
No, not as yet.

I provided an overview of others' interpretations of Vimanas.
Did you read it?
You could also read from the Vedas themselves, and then decide for yourself whether or not these arial vehicles of four thousand years ago are examples of advanced tech.

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"Where the telescope ends, the microscope begins. Which of the two has the greater view?" - Hugo

"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened." - Churchill

So you agree there is no evidence that Vimanas are examples of advanced technology?

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I say there is an invisible elf in my backyard. How do you prove that I am wrong?

Disclaimer: Avatar is not an official NASA image and does not imply any specific interplanetary or interstellar capability.

The Leif Ericson Cruiser

The only evidence which would show Vimanas to be examples of advanced tech would be a Vimana itself, no?

I don't know what you're asking.
I don't have a Vimana but I can not say they don't exist.

None the less, descriptions of flying vehicles with awesome weaponry are a rather advanced technology for a civilization of four thousand years ago, even if only imagined.

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"Where the telescope ends, the microscope begins. Which of the two has the greater view?" - Hugo

"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened." - Churchill

It seems a pretty straightforward question:

Do you agree there is no evidence that Vimanas are examples of advanced technology?

Is your answer "yes" or is it "no"?

Does anyone else find this to be an unclear question? Frankly, I'm somewhat baffiled that you wouldn't understand what's being asked.

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I say there is an invisible elf in my backyard. How do you prove that I am wrong?

Disclaimer: Avatar is not an official NASA image and does not imply any specific interplanetary or interstellar capability.

The Leif Ericson Cruiser

Seems clear to me...

I guess I just don't understand what other evidence for Vimanas you'd expect to see here, aside from one of the craft or its parts (which would render the discussion moot).

If you're asking whether I view the texts and descriptions of Vimanas as examples of advanced tech, I believe I've answered that already.

Saying "There is no evidence that Vimanas are examples of advanced technology," to me, is a matter of perspective.
If one allows the possibility for ancient astronauts visiting earth, as I do, then it seems the descriptions themselves are what constitute evidence, circumstantial indeed.

But again, this is a matter of perspective.

So, Yes I think the descriptions of Vimanas represent circumstantial evidence for advanced technology and No there is no other evidence to show Vimanas are examples of advanced technology.

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"Where the telescope ends, the microscope begins. Which of the two has the greater view?" - Hugo

"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened." - Churchill

I would expect there to be evidence, if you make the statement that there is evidence.

No, I didn't ask about your beliefs. I asked a very straightforward question based on your earlier statement, and as seems typical, you couldn't give a straightforward answer.

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I say there is an invisible elf in my backyard. How do you prove that I am wrong?

Disclaimer: Avatar is not an official NASA image and does not imply any specific interplanetary or interstellar capability.

The Leif Ericson Cruiser

Rubbish.
I gave you a straight answer.
The texts and descriptions themselves are what is considered to be the evidence supporting the AA hypothesis; circumstantial because one must accept the texts as factual accounts.
Perspective.
No other evidence, that I'm aware of, exists.

Again, if one allows the possibility of ancient astronauts visiting earth then these texts describing Vimanas constitute evidence. Whereas, if one doesn't allow such a possibility, Vimanas are merely imaginings of the ancients (although, "arial cars" with missles and rays are rather advanced technology for a human four thousand years ago).

Perhaps if you considered my posts in their entirety, rather than snip'ing a sentence or two, you'd better understand my opinions and statements.


So... do you allow the possibilty of ancient astronauts?
Have you read the texts and descriptions in question?
If you allow ancient astronauts visiting earth could Vimanas then be considered circumstantial evidence of their presence?

__________________
"Where the telescope ends, the microscope begins. Which of the two has the greater view?" - Hugo

"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened." - Churchill

That's a classic circular argument: "If you accept that these are about ET, then you accept they are evidence for ET."

That's not scientific evidence. You would need evidence to support your belief.

Sure, it's possible. Many things are possible . . . for instance, dragons, elves, or ancient astronauts. Do you have some evidence?

__________________
I say there is an invisible elf in my backyard. How do you prove that I am wrong?

Disclaimer: Avatar is not an official NASA image and does not imply any specific interplanetary or interstellar capability.

The Leif Ericson Cruiser