Why the aliens will be nice - Page 2

Neverfly · #31 (**permalink**) 15-April-2008, 07:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by filrabat

Ultimately, we can do nothing more than speculate whether or not galaxy-treking aliens would be violent. Even so, we can play a probability game, so to speak.

Note: The following assumes that humans have indeed become somewhat less aggressive over the past several millenia, or even the past few centuries -- although I attribute it to a combination of the following pervasive environmental and cultural upbringing traits than any essential change in human nature itself.

a) securing resources adequate for Joe and Jane Average to survive fantastically well compared to our Stone Age ancestors
b) increased travel, education, and exposure to ever more diverse types of people and ideas - allowing us to develop greater tolerance for the other, and thus allow us to see "differences" as - ultimately - superficialities.
c) developing technologies that CAN INDEED destroy the ecosystem as currently required by humans, if not the ecosystem itself.
d) just plain sheer luck that (so far) we're not insane enough to risk destroying fairly large chunks of our planet's ecosystem for the sake of resources, political advantage, or mere egotistical imperial glory.

If the alien sense of logic and reason is anything remotely resembling ours, then it's certainly plausible to believe they would see no real point in destroying us - particularly if their sense of empathy and compassion at least somewhat resembles ours (or at least their sense of wonderment at life itself).

Weighed against that -- some species may actually require MORE resources to sustain itself..just as Britain and France at the height of their industrial eras required more resources than Dark Ages France and England. This keeps open the possibility that galaxy-trotting civilizations may exploit resources even of living planets themselves!

Also, assuming it is indeed possible to change "sentient being nature" (in our case "human nature") via direct manipulation of our DNA, for example...then the types of aliens we're likely to encounter will be limited only by our imagination. In that case, some no doubt will be gene-engineered to be "civilized" and "empathetic" as we humans understand it. But against that, it's also possible that some gene-engineered aliens will likely consume and be aggressive.

Either way, if aliens do come here (or the other way around)...it will require a VERY strong sense of judiciousness to make sense of what kind of creatures they are.

Excellent points.

And this is why my basic attitude is.... whether Friend or Foe...

Bring 'em on...

ETA: Another thought: If Life on Earth and evolution as we witness it are any kind of example- Life Bears Diverstiy.
I can't help but think that any Life elsewhere would also have diversity. Whether they are mean or nice- it is the diversity that ulitmately will determine how we respond to eachother.

Ross 54 · #32 (**permalink**) 15-April-2008, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by newmac

Humans, "just switched on their computers", (its about time) but have yet to cease war; invent fusion power, and are still using dead plants to power their cars. They continue to maim and torture each other; have a backward political system, and can't yet regrow a limb. They've never landed a human on another planet.

More advanced extraterrestrials, understanding the history of their own social and technological advancement would be less than reasonable if they expected us to live up to their standards, at this early stage of our development. It may be that even civilizations very advanced by our standards, find themselves wanting in some respects, and seek to improve. They might choose to honor what good has been accomplished, by themselves, and by us. Ross

Swift · #33 (**permalink**) 15-April-2008, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neverfly

ETA: Another thought: If Life on Earth and evolution as we witness it are any kind of example- Life Bears Diverstiy.
I can't help but think that any Life elsewhere would also have diversity. Whether they are mean or nice- it is the diversity that ulitmately will determine how we respond to eachother.

David Brin, in some of his writings (he is a science fiction writer) has gone into that. One of his short stories describes intelligent-machine-space-probes that go out into the galaxy to explore (no FTL, no Star Trek). But even here, the machines reflect the civilizations that created them, and he describes them by sort of what "ecological niche" they fit in: grazers, hunters, scavengers, etc. I certainly find that easier to believe than "all advanced civilizations are nice".

crosscountry · #34 (**permalink**) 15-April-2008, 06:15 PM

I think the OP makes some assumptions that we're not allowed to make.

But it is a hopeful thought.

Jason · #35 (**permalink**) 15-April-2008, 07:43 PM

We don't kick over anthills because we're apes. Apes would eat the ants.

Noclevername · #36 (**permalink**) 15-April-2008, 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ross 54

More advanced extraterrestrials, understanding the history of their own social and technological advancement would be less than reasonable if they expected us to live up to their standards, at this early stage of our development.

But we don't know what their history and standards might be, nor what they would consider "reasonable" expectations.

Neverfly · #37 (**permalink**) 15-April-2008, 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason

We don't kick over anthills because we're apes. Apes would eat the ants.

They kind of have a spice about them. Burns a bit. Like Cinnamon.

redshifter · #38 (**permalink**) 15-April-2008, 08:21 PM

Heck, maybe they read internet message boards and have come to the conclusion that we really aren't very intelligent at all, certainly not enough to warrant contact.

Neverfly · #39 (**permalink**) 15-April-2008, 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redshifter

Heck, maybe they read internet message boards and have come to the conclusion that we really aren't very intelligent at all, certainly not enough to warrant contact.

Not possible.

An advanced alien reading the net would be unable to resist the urger to register and post, "No nonono you've got it all wrong! It's like THIS:____"

redshifter · #40 (**permalink**) 15-April-2008, 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neverfly

Not possible.

An advanced alien reading the net would be unable to resist the urger to register and post, "No nonono you've got it all wrong! It's like THIS:____"

Swift · #41 (**permalink**) 15-April-2008, 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neverfly

Not possible.

An advanced alien reading the net would be unable to resist the urger to register and post, "No nonono you've got it all wrong! It's like THIS:____"

Reading through ATM and Fun & Games, I suspect they do all the time.

crosscountry · #42 (**permalink**) 16-April-2008, 03:43 PM

that is if aliens are anything like emotional humans

JustAFriend · #43 (**permalink**) 16-April-2008, 10:17 PM

The assumption that a more advanced species will be non-violent, or that we will genetically engineer such tendencies out of ourselves implies a direct intent.... and that may not be applicable.

To go back to my stepping on an ant hill comment, such an action may not even have to be an act of immaturity or childishness.

If you are a homeowner of any sort, you have no doubt treated your lawn or your house for ants and termites. An incredibly advanced alien race may not even consider us to be of any more consequence than an ant mound or termites in the woodwork.

That is not to say they are cruel; they could just be indifferent to us 'puny humans'.

"Hey, Zorg.... did you see that investation over there? I didn't care when it chewed up the landscape over in that system, but they just sent a probe over HERE.... time to get out the Terminex guy!!!"

clint · #44 (**permalink**) 16-April-2008, 11:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neverfly

The arguments on either side can be interesting- speculation about each side can be as well. It can be healthy.
But believing that one argument makes more sense than another or that your argument is correct- makes no sense at all and is unhealthy in a speculative discussion.

Couldn't agree more.
I'm always amazed how anybody can possibly claim 'all alien are this' or 'all aliens are that'.

sarongsong · #45 (**permalink**) 16-April-2008, 11:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neverfly

...Speculation about an alien life form's behavior, motivations or intentions is just that- Speculation. We don't know. Currently, we have no way of knowing...

Depends on what is meant by "we":

Quote:

...ETs and UFOs Are Real
Some of the people from outer space are very concerned about the violence on this Earth, and they have helped us at times in the past...and, yes, I've met with some of the good ones face to face. There are bad ones out there, too, but I've never met with them...They look just like we do, only smaller and usually thinner. They are lighter complected than the average [Native American] Indian and darker than the average white person. I would say the full-bloods among them, which they mostly are, have an olive complexion. They are highly intelligent and peaceful; they keep their ears covered because their ears are different and kind of pointy. So they wear their hair over their ears or caps to keep their ears out of sight. There are some of them living among us and taking up our customs and language so that they fit in. They have the ability to speak the language perfectly, wherever they are.
These space beings are watching events on Earth and will intervene to prevent people from blowing up the planet, so that what happened once before in our solar system doesn't happen again...
Rolling Thunder Speaks ©1999, p. 61-2

Neverfly · #46 (**permalink**) 17-April-2008, 12:00 AM

Quote:

...ETs and UFOs Are Real
They look just like we do, only smaller and usually thinner. They are lighter complected than the average [Native American] Indian and darker than the average white person. I would say the full-bloods among them, which they mostly are, have an olive complexion. They are highly intelligent and peaceful; they keep their ears covered because their ears are different and kind of pointy. So they wear their hair over their ears or caps to keep their ears out of sight.
Rolling Thunder Speaks ©1999, p. 61-2

THAT'S what they look like?!?!

Well.. datgummit... I think I ate one of 'em...

Neverfly · #47 (**permalink**) 18-April-2008, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RalofTyr

Y?

Because war does not differentiate between the strong and the weak.

ravens_cry · #48 (**permalink**) 18-April-2008, 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clint

Couldn't agree more.
I'm always amazed how anybody can possibly claim 'all alien are this' or 'all aliens are that'.

One thing I think CAN be claimed of all aliens is that they will be people. Different, and well, alien, people, but people. I find it unlikely we will meet 'war race' or 'space hippie race'. Though they may have an understanding of some things that daunt us by virtue of their different perspective, I doubt they will have a better answer then '42'. Instead, we will meet people, with all the complexities there in. However, as I have said before, we are people, capable of acts of brutality and kindness that can both break heart and mind. Can there be an understanding? It is hard enough to bridge between cultures, let alone creatures from a different star.
Still, I have hope, a special kind of faith, that we will be friends. Not brothers, for bothers have fought and died in love and war, but friends, a bond not of kinship, but of fellowship. I agree with Neverfly, bring 'em on, and also, let us go. For 50 years we have reached a hand into the heavens, but now let us run, dash, and skate upon the endless sea, drink fully of its riches, so we may join in dance with those who are Other.

crosscountry · #49 (**permalink**) 18-April-2008, 02:57 PM

what about the bug races that are ruled by a queen?