From Astrobio Mag:

New data shows that the area where NASA's Phoenix Mars mission landed may have been habitable for microbes in Mars' past – and could become habitable again in Mars' future. The results are discussed in the first major peer-reviewed reports on the mission's findings, published in this week's edition of the journal Science.
...

The study of Mars is in transition from a follow-the-water stage to a follow-the-chemistry stage,” Hecht said. “With perchlorate, for example, we see links to atmospheric humidity, soil moisture, a possible energy source for microbes, even a possible resource for humans.”

Lends support to fossilized microbes in ALH840001, no?

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"Where the telescope ends, the microscope begins. Which of the two has the greater view?" - Hugo

"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened." - Churchill

I don't think the problem with the lack of credibility for AL840001 claims is that life was not possible on Mars, it is more about the value of the actual evidence. If ALH84did represent a fortuitous recovery of fossiliferous rock from Mars then discovery and recovery of the source outcrop on Mars would be a very high priority.

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plenty of woo, at the hotel hoagaland...

Interestingly, the meteorite was analyzed under "single blind" conditions; she, the student hired by McKay, didn't know it was said to be from Mars and still concluded nanobacterial fossils.


Also, they already think they've identified where on Mars it came from: Eos Chasma.

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"Where the telescope ends, the microscope begins. Which of the two has the greater view?" - Hugo

"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened." - Churchill

I suppose I should know more than I do - is Eos Chasma a significant location for any particular region?

How has this news been accepted by the scientific masses? Sounds like exciting news. You'd expect to hear a lot about this, but I haven't seen anything on the general news sites I've been to.

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Birthplace of famous Mars meteorite pinpointed.

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"Where the telescope ends, the microscope begins. Which of the two has the greater view?" - Hugo

"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened." - Churchill

From what I've read (and I'm doing this from memory, so be aware ), there is no final consensus on AL840001. I recall reading some learned opinions that differed from the opinion that what was found were microfossils, but instead had non-organic origins, and offered mechansims for the creation of the features found.

I don't have a professional opinion, but from the outside looking in, I would say that AL840001 was interesting, but because of these doubts, could not be taken as definitive proof.

It is possible (maybe even likely) that we will eventually find definitive proof of past or current life on Mars, and yet the features found in AL840001 will continue to be inconclusive.

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Indeed, 10yrs Later the debate raged on, and still does.

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"Where the telescope ends, the microscope begins. Which of the two has the greater view?" - Hugo

"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened." - Churchill

Hmmmm... this doesn't look like it will ever lead to either conclusion on it's own. Kind of a piece of circumstantial evidence I suppose. It seems like something that really is going to need some complimentary evidence either way, in order for it to gain any real value of it's own.

Although I suppose it's possible some new technology or knowledge could change all that. We really need to get some people to that planet to do some exploration.

Anyone got an opinion among this council of learned people of Zubrin's "Mars Direct" concept? I imagine sts60, Jay and a few others would have a good insight into this.

(second thoughts, I should use my head and use the search function)

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The left hand knows full well what the right hand is doing, but quietly ignores it.

Yes, more samples from the surface would greatly help

Although I suppose it's possible some new technology or knowledge could change all that. We really need to get some people to that planet to do some exploration.[/QUOTE]

To really understand ALH84001 I suspect that is what we will need.

You could contact the WA chapter of Mars Society Australia http://marssociety.org.au/ for some local opinions.

MD was highly influental study, however the game has moved along since it was originally proposed. This could be discussed in another thread, or you could PM me.

Jon

Nature is full of cycles so why we would we think that tendency does not apply to Mars's climate?

And even if we find microbes or microbe fossils on Mars, does it actually prove anything not long suspected already?

The bigger story would be finding no life anywhere else in the universe. That would be shocking.

Thanks for the link. I like this passage in the article:

Another surprise from Phoenix was finding ice clouds and precipitation more Earth-like than anticipated. The lander’s Canadian laser instrument for studying the atmosphere detected snow falling from clouds. In one of this week’s reports, Jim Whiteway of York University, Toronto, and 22 coauthors say that, further into winter than Phoenix operated, this precipitation would result in a seasonal buildup of water ice on and in the ground.
“Before Phoenix we did not know whether precipitation occurs on Mars,” Whiteway said. “We knew that the polar ice cap advances as far south as the Phoenix site in winter, but we did not know how the water vapor moved from the atmosphere to ice on the ground. Now we know that it does snow, and that this is part of the hydrological cycle on Mars.”

This is overwhelmingly important since it suggests H2O precipitation that reaches the ground may be actually occurring on other locations on Mars. Key places to look would be locations known to have recurring dense cloud cover such as Noctis Labyrinthus.
One method this could be tested would be to do a comparison between the cloud opacity at Noctis to the clouds seen over Phoenix. Given the denseness of the clouds seen in that now famous image of Noctis taken by Mars Express, attached, it would seem the Noctis clouds would certainly have to be denser.
This would strongly imply these clouds over Noctis could also produce precipitation as the clouds over Phoenix could.
Knowing this fact would be overwhelmingly important for correctly understanding the hydrological cycle on Mars, since it would suggest such precipitation is actually widespread on Mars.


Bob Clark

Attached Images

marsiswet.jpg (43.6 KB, 8 views)

Just that it snows on mars is cool enough for me!

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