No, this is not a political thread. It's a point of grammar.

I can't remember why it's courts-martial instead of court-martials. And even though I know it's courts-martial, and I'm normally a stickler for correct grammar, it just sounds wrong.

So, I propose we just make this an exception to whatever rule it follows.

Anyone with me?

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"The oxen are slow, but the earth is patient."

Deep six or Deep sixes?

Deep sixes is okay, 'cause six is the noun. Court-martial is just a variant of martial court, so it's courts-martial for the same reason it's martial courts.

Same reason it's sons-in-law instead of son-in-laws.

Sorry, Sci-Fi, but I like courts-martial.

(And, dang it, I need to come up with a sci-fi quote for that other thread!)

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SeanF

"Ask to understand, but don't challenge unless you have the knowledge."--NEOWatcher

The contents of this post are ©2008 by SeanF and may not be copied or retransmitted in any form without the express written consent of SeanF

No need to apologize. Thanks for the explanation. That helps a lot in understanding, though it does nothing for the sound of it. However, it leads me to another question. You say that it's a variant of martial court, which makes sense, but how then, did the term develop.

Why don't we hear, "The soldier will be tried in martial court."?

We see court-martial being used as a verb. "The soldier will be court-martialed." Should it be, "The soldier will go through a court-martial process."?

Yes, I know, I should get back to work. :P

[edited for clarity]

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"The oxen are slow, but the earth is patient."

I'm with SFC. I know martial is an adjective, so it's courts-martial. But it sounds lame.

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- Learn a lot teaching others.

Exactly! I even heard a newscaster correct herself the other day, because the natural thing is to say court-martials.

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"The oxen are slow, but the earth is patient."

Martial is the adjective; its defining a specific sub-set of courts. IIRC back in the old days there were military courts, secular courts and ecclesiastical courts plus several others. I can vaguely remember reading a reference to Courts-Royal in the trial of somebody or other but I can't remember the context.

If we can break the traditional rule of putting the adjective in front of the noun, then I say we can break the rule of pluralizing the adjective. \/

One would think it was Friday with the kind of mood I'm in.

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"The oxen are slow, but the earth is patient."

Well, this one isn't really a question of which sounds better, it's a question of what's grammatically correct.

Same principle as Attorneys General (rather than Attorney Generals).
Courts-martial. Anything else sounds weird to me.

Oh well, our language can be goofy. I'm still trying to figure out precisely how we've managed to derive KER-nul from Colonel. :wink:

Wrong. I already said I knew what was grammatically correct. I just couldn't remember why. To me, it still sounds better the other way. Maybe it's the way it rolls off the tongue. Thus, the question was am I alone in that feeling.

Now that you mention it, I think attorney generals sounds better too.

I think that may have started as Keh-nul, and then we added in the 'r'. There are certain places in the south where they warsh their clothes rather than wash them. Drives me nuts, I tell you.

That's why this is so weird for me. I'm usually a real stickler for whatever is correct.

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"The oxen are slow, but the earth is patient."

Most likely the expression court-martial is imported from another language.

Another example of an imported military term is lieutenant, very close to the french lieu tenant (meaning "placeholder" - lieu is place, tenant is holder; the translation in italian is luogotenente).

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papageno


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"It's all about context!" - Vince Noir (The Mighty Boosh)

"I've never heard of such a brutal and shocking injustice that I cared so little about!" - Zapp Brannigan (Futurama)

:-({|=

:P

Courts-martial because I remember Hammond saying to Ferreti in 'Within the Serpent's Grasp' when Ferreti asked if Hammond wanted SG-2 to retrieve SG-1 who had illegally gone through the gate to Klorel's ship, "We'd only be bringing them back for courts-martial."

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Well, that settles it.

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Everything I need to know I learned through Googling.

Or this does anyway.

For those of you whose computers take too long to download the file:
MANUAL FOR COURTS-MARTIAL UNITED STATES (2000 EDITION)

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The correct term is "Courts Martial". The reason was probably covered above by someone. I don't know the history, but I do know what it is called.

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Those who repeat History are doomed to learn it.

No, no, no. Official documentation is meaningless. I know what's correct. What I'm calling for is a change. Obviously, TPTB haven't caught on yet. 8)

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"The oxen are slow, but the earth is patient."

Just my 0.02, but isn't the term court-martial a verb? Wouldn't it follow then a single individual may face a single or multiple charges to face a court-martial. If several people are charged the plural would have to be courts-martial as it involves cases/charges against multiple people and several courts could be convened to hear the charges against the individuals.

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" The universe is running away
I heard it on the news just the other day
There's this new stuff called dark energy
We can't measure and we can't see..." - from Jimmy Buffett's What if the hokey pokey is all it really is about?

Yes and no.