I think you fail to grasp the consequences of compromising your security clearance to foreign nationals, particularly in the current atmosphere and the country in question and the agency to which he was connected.

There's a word for such an action, its called treason. It tends to come complete with living arrangements in a secure facility for an extended chunk of your natural lifespan and a small, barely marked, grave in a place where your family can't visit in the event you don't outlive your sentence. In rare cases, which I don't think Lurker's case covers, the end result is a pair of injections designed to render you unconscious and stop your lungs from functioning. This isn't a game he's playing, its extremely serious.

Like I said, its not fair, it was never intended to be fair, but that's part of the faustian bargain you make when you start learning the government's secrets.

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I'm not completely heartless, the doctor who removed it told me he'd never be able to get it all.

Who me? I said that earlier.That's why I included the disclaimer at the end of my last post. I am not trying to incite anyone to illegal action.That's why I've decided not to apply for or accept any security clearance. What I learn I will learn through open channels.

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"Oh no no no I'm a rocket man Rocket man burning out his fuse up here alone." -- Sir Elton John

J Pax

It seems I've misunderstood you, JPax. My apologies.

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I'm not completely heartless, the doctor who removed it told me he'd never be able to get it all.

Doodler: giving away something important to a known enemy, something that could get people killed, is treason.

Meeting a friend who has no affiliation with any enemy organization is not treason.

You can't say something is treason unless you can prove it is treason.

And I know I risk my behind saying this, it being rather politically loaded... But as far as I am concerned, the games that countries have taken to playing are ridiculous, stupid, and incredibly dangerous. We make war over the stupidest, most petty things, and value our pathetic little secrets over human life. Nations don't act as though they're lead by sensible adults; they whine and cry and argue and skirmish as though lead by naive, greedy children.

In matters of politics and "national security", we're not using our heads and we're not using our hearts. If you think that this thoughtlessness won't bite back at us at some point, you should check your thoughts, because greed and corruption and stupidity always bite back - if not at those responsible, than at those who are innocent. What our nations do now will come back to haunt us, but it won't discriminate between the innocent and the guilty.

As ye shall sow, so shall ye reap.

Do not hijack this thread and turn it into something politcal. That has nothing to do with the intent of this thread, at least not as directly as it is being discussed now.

In a way, doesn't all this discussion of law, politics, secrecy, security, etc. rather miss the point?

I can't speak for Lurker. I don't even know him. Heck, I don't know any of you; I'm new around here. But I did notice that he didn't mention any of this stuff about security clearances and war and peace and whatnot in the post that started this thread.

We could have world peace tomorrow, and universal enlightenment, and no more secrets, and yet certain implacable facts would not be altered.

(I can't find the footing to say more than that. I don't really know how to handle discussions like this. I just become acutely aware of the strangerhood that I (we?) inhabit here on the Web, and feel that I am just not qualified to speak.)

How do you deal with a relentless reality?

To officially get this back on track - Lurker, I am so sorry that Rose is back in the hospital.

I am thrilled that you are in touch with her and know what's going on.

I do hope you will be apprised of the outcome.

You have my deepest condolences as I'm convinced you are getting way more than your fair share of pain in this life.

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"The oxen are slow, but the earth is patient."

To be fair, you don't need to prove treason to be convicted and sentenced for it. It'd be nice if you were correct, Gullible Jones, but most of us have at least heard stories where someone was railroaded. But you are probably right and he would never be accused of Treason, although they would probably find other federal crimes to charge him with. Are we sure she has no affiliation with an enemy organization?

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"Oh no no no I'm a rocket man Rocket man burning out his fuse up here alone." -- Sir Elton John

J Pax

Seriously, after the BA's warning, could you start another thread on this particular topic and leave this one as nice thoughts for Lurker and what he's going through?

Thanks.

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"The oxen are slow, but the earth is patient."

Seriously, after the BA's warning to what others were writing I am still not abrogating his admonition. My posts are pragmatic without partisan politics and are dealing with the issue at hand. I have not attacked anyone else's politics. My posts have been supportive and are discussions of how Lurker may find relief of this his personal issue. I will abate if the BA or Lurker ask. Thank you for your concern.

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"Oh no no no I'm a rocket man Rocket man burning out his fuse up here alone." -- Sir Elton John

J Pax

I see. Well, if you're actually reading what Lurker wrote, then you will know that he wishes to acquiesce to his love's desire NOT to see him in this time, so there's really no need for you to continue discussing whether he can visit her. Of course, I don't expect anything I say will stop you from the course you've set, but I feel the need to say it anyway.

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"The oxen are slow, but the earth is patient."

see above post.
Thank you for your concern.

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"Oh no no no I'm a rocket man Rocket man burning out his fuse up here alone." -- Sir Elton John

J Pax

au contraire madame....
(on the contrary my lady)

What you see as pain, are in fact mixed blessings. Mixed blessings because they do contain a significant amount of pain, but they also mold and shape one's perceptions in ways that leave them all the sharper for the experience.

I stand between two worlds, because of the depression that I am designed to experience. But having been treated now, I can see farther and understand more than anyone who has not experienced both sides. The red of a rose or the sweet sound of a brook mean, I think, more to me than anyone who has never seen both sides of the great divide. I do not want to go back, and my heart breaks for those who still suffer, but I savor each moment now because I know their fleeting nature, because I understand their fragility.

I know now that Rose and I have shared and savored deep, pure love. I would wish our circumstances were different, but our feelings are none the less intense because of our distance. Someone asked me recently if I were to lose Rose, and if they could take away the pain of loss by erasing all memory of Rose, would I want the cure. I did not hesitate, I would NEVER want to lose my memories of the love we share. I have no way to know how many people share love as deep as she and I share, but I see a lot of unhappy people in the world. Rose and I are so happy when we talk... our love is very strong. I have a feeling that many don't know what we share. I would only ask of fate that I be allowed to take her illness. I know all the arguments against the idea, but I now know that the love I feel for Rose makes her life more important to me than my own.

I may have been given more than my fair share of pain, but I have also been given great gifts. Perhaps great gifts come at great price. I would rather accept the gifts at great price than not be offered these gifts at all.

:roll:

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"The oxen are slow, but the earth is patient."

Though my experience with depression is different from yours in cause and cure, I have some idea of where I'm coming from.

As to the rest of your post, you truly inspire me Lurker. You also give me hope. Forgive me for misunderstanding earlier.

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"The oxen are slow, but the earth is patient."

Don't be inspired, and no apologies.. Next thing you know someone is gunna start looking in the stuff I write for wisdom or something!! #-o
Then I'll get nasty emails when they realize there isn't any... :wink:

Life isn't fair, life is art. It is unforgiving beauty at it's starkest and that can be hard to accept. We are all connected if we would only slow down long enough to figure that out. I genuinely believe that the love we make lasts forever. If that's true, then the world is a better place and my life is richer for Rose's passing this way.

If you see something in me to give you hope, send a message of hope and thanks to < >, because she has made me a better man than I am... because her love for me gives me the strength to yield... because without what she has taught me and shared with me I would not understand.


damn... metaphysics in an astronomy forum... Ima get myself thrown outa here!! 8)

(Just in case there is any doubt... yup, that's Rose's email address... :wink: )



Edited to Delete email address

sigh... yeah, it's what keeps us apart, too bad but I know you are probably right.

Ah, hope & love....two of the essences of life.....what a refreshing post....Lurker, buddy, (even though we've never met), hang in there!!!
I hope that you feel everyday like you did when you wrote that post.....And if you forget, you can always come back here and remind yourself!
Hang in there!

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"Its full of stars!"