I'm so bummed. I thought I would finally be able to post in the astronomy section and say something about seeing Saturn and Jupiter, but noooooo....nature had to mess up yet another Saturday night. I thought it might clear up, so I headed out to George Observatory, took a different route than usual, got lost driving around hobunk Fort Bend County and missed the all of 15 minute window around 7:00 p.m. when they did see Saturn. A lot of people were bummed out; I guess when there's only one night a week for public viewing one gets somewhat psyched about it. And worse, last night was clear--only Saturday nights are for the public.

So, I ended up going home with just a planisphere and Barbara Wilson's (the director of the observatory, which is owned by The Houston Museum of Natural Science) saying Phil Plait is a "good guy." I suppose she has a list in her head of "bad guys," but as it was near closing, I couldn't delve into her list, though Richard Hoagland is one of the "bad guys." I got that much.

I was inspired despite the clouds. Barbara is a spirited, down to earth kind of woman and we both could easily go on and on about light pollution and our mutual disgust for it. Come to find out later on the net, she's actually an amateur astronomer, but I've already read every article of hers I could find and she doesn't sound so "amateur." She apparently was a housewife and then got into astronomy and helped found the GO. She has also fought hard with Fort Bend County to get them to install domed lights, so the GO won't be looking at a mauve sky.

Anyway, I was at the cash register ready to buy my planisphere and stuffed alligator (for my niece), talking to the very bored young guy (because cloudy nights are boring) and Barbara came over while I was saying that I needed the planisphere to bring to Florida. I said, "I'm really behind the astronomy curve...I'm trying to learn more...I look at Bad Astronomy dot..," and she cut me off and said, "Phil Plait, he's a good guy...I have his book." I said some things about the book and she mentioned that she tried/wants (?) to get the BA to talk at the Texas Star...she was so wired and I'm going deaf, it seems, that I didn't catch what she meant. I asked why the BA isn't invited to Houston or at JSC and she used some word for the people at NASA--I didn't quite get the gist of it, so I ought not to figure that one out. Do local astronomers have an issue with some NASA people?

I guess most astronomers (amateur or otherwise) know other astronomers. Anyway, I liked Barbara's enthusiasm and she made sure that I understood how to use the planisphere correctly in Vero Beach and wasn't the least bit condescending, as so many people can be to clueless wonders about the universe. She made sure to tell me about upcoming events: the solar eclipse on April 8th and Jupiter's bright coming out party (my words) on the 3rd. She teaches astronomy classes at GO and I can see that she probably does a good job. The people who operate the three (actually four) telescopes are all amateur astronomer volunteers. They were all friendly and really wanted to please us (as if they have any control!), so they did everything they could to make it interesting. Elevate the floor, lower it four times, move the telescope east, then west. Look at the mirrors in the telescope...

Oh well, I did learn about the different kinds of telescopes and Barbara gives a 1/2 hour slide/presentation before you look through the telescope. It sinks in better for me when I can actually see and touch things in real life, not on a 2-dimensional piece of paper or PC screen. It's been so many years since I've gone to an observatory. I have intimate knowledge of the park itself and the alligators, but for the longest time I didn't know the GO was open to the public; it always looked dead in the afternoon.

They tell me on clear nights in the summer about 300-500 people come and set their telescopes up on the expansive veranda. That sounds fun--lots of people to teach me. Apparently, they've found a bunch of asteroids there. You don't have to leave the park if you camp there, so I think it would be cool to hang out all night and not have to worry about driving on those scary head-on collision roads in the dark. The funny thing is, a volunteer told me people come out on even rainy nights--they seem to think telescopes have x-ray vision and can see through clouds, lol. There was a nice sunset, so I thought it would get clear. I'm not that dumb. Better luck next week!

Sorry for babbling here--just sort of wired and looking forward to next Saturday and I have no one to talk to who even cares about this stuff, especially at 1:45 in the a.m.

Phil, when I came home I found what she was talking about in regards to wanting you to speak in West Texas. I am sure this is it, because I know she said, "Texas Star..."
Texas Star Party 2005

If anyone is interested: George Observatory

Articles or information about Barbara Wilson:
Barbara Wilson's Home Page
http://tinyurl.com/4uhaq
http://tinyurl.com/6xwuj
Houston Chronicle Q & A

__________________
The perception of the comic is a tie of sympathy with other men, a pledge of sanity. We must learn by laughter as well as by tears and terror. ~ R. W. Emerson

Oh, I forgot in that novella above. Can anyone suggest a reasonably priced and/or type of telescope or good binoculars? Obviously, it would be silly to spend much--it's like buying a $3K bike when you've only ridden once.

I was thinking of buying a telescope for our house in FL, but then thought, nah, I'm not that nice. Something I could easily cart on the plane, but not one that's real cheap. I do need a new set of binoculars anyway, but I'm not sure what will do the trick.

Suggestions?

__________________
The perception of the comic is a tie of sympathy with other men, a pledge of sanity. We must learn by laughter as well as by tears and terror. ~ R. W. Emerson

Ok, so nobody cares about my post. But can someone at least recommend a reasonably priced telescope or binoculars for a newbie star gazer? Something practical for carrying on a plane, but not something too cheap--I'm not dirt poor, but I'm not extravagant, either. I was looking for your experienced opinions. This is an astronomy board after all.

I don't want to just go to Walmart and pick up a telescope there. :roll: I'm hedging towards very good binoculars since I do need those for ground viewing anyway.



Grendel without enough coffee.




Edited for img link

__________________
The perception of the comic is a tie of sympathy with other men, a pledge of sanity. We must learn by laughter as well as by tears and terror. ~ R. W. Emerson

Sorry, just saw the thread.

You can become a member of HMNS and get invited to special Satrgazing Parties.

Here's a thread that might shed some light :wink: on what to buy.
http://www.badastronomy.com/phpBB/vi...c.php?p=254502

__________________
Never attribute to malice what can be adequately explained by ignorance or stupidity.
Isaac Asimov

Thank you Jim, I won't feel sorry for myself now, though I do hope the BA sees my brevity-challenged post, since it's nice to know that people think highly of him. I don't think HMNS would want such a clueless member--I think I might start off hanging around the 300-500 people on clear nights at GO. Once I'm shown how to do something, I can usually pick it up rather quickly.

Are you a member? Do you go to the place in Columbus? If not, where do you star gaze, because Clear Lake isn't much clearer than Houston proper. UofH and Rice have baby observatories, but that just seems to be an oxymoron of sorts.

__________________
The perception of the comic is a tie of sympathy with other men, a pledge of sanity. We must learn by laughter as well as by tears and terror. ~ R. W. Emerson

Boy, Grendl, you really activated a lot of memory-neurons. I was an undergrad at Rice, then got a master's at UH (and ran the "baby observatory" there for a while. (It was a dome on top of the Science & Research I bldg., near downtown Houston - not exactly ideal conditions... But we had a hundred or so people for a close approach of Mars, and you could the Ring Nebula was still nice.)

I was in HAS and met Barb Wilson there. She is actually "quietly famous" in the amateur world, and deservedly so - she's a darn good amateur astronomer, enthusiastic, a hard worker in bringing it to the public. And nice too.

I'm glad to hear she's director of George now. I was one of the operators on the 36" telescope for a while. The HMNS got it from LSU for a song, and with a lot of hard work by a number of people (no, I was not one of them; I just enjoyed the fruits of their labor) built a first-class educational/public/working observatory in a really neat site.

For those of you who haven't been there, GO is in Brazos Bend State Park, on the Brazos River, and you can look for alligators, deer, racoons, and whatnot as you walk the path from the parking lot. The exhibit room/gift shop and Challenger Center are built into the little hill; the top is a T-shaped space with the 36" dome at the center of the T-cross, with domes for 14" or so scopes on either end of the crossbar. The rest of the space is a concrete pad with red lights and electrical outlets for people to bring and plug in their own scopes. If you're in Houston and have a Saturday afternoon and evening, be sure to go.

The Columbus Grendl mentioned is a dark-sky site about 60 mi. west of Houston, built and operated by HAS, with very nice facilities (roll-off roof observatory with three fixed scopes, observing pads with electrical power, a bunk room and bathroom with AC, etc. There are a lot of active amateurs in the Houston area with various affiliations (HAS, FBAC*, etc.).

HAS = Houston Astronomical Society
FBAC = Fort Bend Astro. Society

If your going to spend some time with all those telescopes, I would suggest looking through some of them and talking with the owners. That way, you would be able to actually look through what you plan on getting and getting some tips from those owners. And they will teach. Most are very patient in answering questions and sharing their ideas.

__________________
Some try to tell me, thoughts they cannot defend,... - Moody Blues.

Neptune- The original Dark Matter.

The author feels that this technique of deliberately lying will actually make it easier for you to learn the ideas. - Donald Knuth

sts60 wrote:

Boy, Grendl, you really activated a lot of memory-neurons. I was an undergrad at Rice, then got a master's at UH (and ran the "baby observatory" there for a while. (It was a dome on top of the Science & Research I bldg., near downtown Houston - not exactly ideal conditions... But we had a hundred or so people for a close approach of Mars, and you could the Ring Nebula was still nice.)

I knew from reading your posts that you had done something in Houston, though I wasn't sure what--I thought maybe you had worked at NASA. Are you a native Texan? What size is the telescope at UH's observatory? To be honest, even when I did the March of Dimes Walk there last year, I didn't notice it and I walked 4 miles around the campus. I know that it's not always "mauve" here...Friday night and Sunday night were clear and I could see some stars and I'm near the Galleria. Of course, it was clear the night after I go to GO. :-( I remember when I was nine years old, my mother took an astronomy course at Southern CT State Univ. in New Haven, and took my sister and me to the observatory there. It was small, but I recall looking at the Milky Way and thought it was so "neat." It was better than nothing, for sure. Rice has a "baby observatory" too.

I was in HAS and met Barb Wilson there. She is actually "quietly famous" in the amateur world, and deservedly so - she's a darn good amateur astronomer, enthusiastic, a hard worker in bringing it to the public. And nice too.

Quietly famous? You must have mistyped, because she doesn't seem quiet at all!

I'm glad to hear she's director of George now. I was one of the operators on the 36" telescope for a while. The HMNS got it from LSU for a song, and with a lot of hard work by a number of people (no, I was not one of them; I just enjoyed the fruits of their labor) built a first-class educational/public/working observatory in a really neat site.

Lucky you! In the half hour talk she gives before you go upstairs, she talked about the telescopes, how much they paid, how they operate, etc. The big dome has a 36" Richey-Chretien telescope w/ Cassegrain optics, right? The East Dome has an 18" Newtonian Reflector that they paid $20K for. She said that was expensive, but that doesn't seem expensive to me in the world of office equipment I work in. The West Dome has a 14" Schmidt-Cassegrain. Is that what was there when you were there? The guy operating the 14" Newtonian was very nice and when someone said that they thought they saw Jupiter, he quickly reacted, but the dome itself needs a gallon of WD-40. It's sad--where is the money for this? They added the Challenger Center and closed up the breezeway, but the domes need help. How much can this be? It seems that HMNS isn't funneling too much of their budget out that way. I'm so weird too, I asked them at the cash register if the $ from the items I was buying was going to HMNS, because at HMNS proper, some exhibits use Barnes & Noble to sell their books and such.

She mentioned C. Robert O'Dell at Rice. After talking about the telescopes, she focused on Titan and the Huygens probe. There were a bunch of little kids there--all sorts of people--but kids have no conception of 20,000 degrees or millions and billions of years. When my mother took us to a planetarium when I was four years old, I learned the sun would "blow up" and walked around for two weeks or so thinking we were going to be fried to a crisp any day. I felt really sad about this (so my mother says).

She also showed a short 3-D movie on the Orion Nebulae from Hubble images. I know it was made in San Diego--was it JPL? I can't recall now. The comments about Hubble from the AA's were analogous to the vet telling you that your family dog needs to be put down. "It got a repreive, but I don't know how much longer it will last," sort of comments. So, Barbara focused on Titan and Saturn and the Cassini images. I think it would be useful to those lay people there if they handed out a simple flyer with web site links and such. You know, "If you want to learn more, go here..." Just a simple piece of paper. People like to leave with something and some kid might then be inspired to go to the JPL pages and such (or BadAstronomy.com) and look at all the cool images our tax dollars help create.


For those of you who haven't been there, GO is in Brazos Bend State Park, on the Brazos River, and you can look for alligators, deer, racoons, and whatnot as you walk the path from the parking lot.

You know, for the zillions of times I've been there walking and biking, I have to admit walking that dark path from the parking lot to the observatory is kind of creepy knowing that the alligators sit in the muck right up to the paths. Half way down the path they use red path lights, so it's even darker. Perhaps people are unaware that the alligators move from the various ponds to the river and back, which means they frequently have to take a ground stroll. I saw a four foot alligator in the middle of the road by the big lot holding up traffic. Barbara said that before the breezeway was closed in, there was once a four foot alligator right up against the glass double-doors, which open outwards. So, she was stuck there. They hiss at you if you try to push them around, lol, but generally are pleasant. They aren't aggressive, but will eat your pup no problem if it lands in the water. The largest one I've seen I had named Big Daddy--he was about 12 feets and husky.

A word of advice to anyone: don't go there on holiday weekends. You won't see much wildlife, because every picnic table is occupied with screaming kids and pinatas. As much as I hate the noise, I do realize that the $3 per head helps. The trash, otoh, doesn't. When I go there biking, I go way in the back, off the beaten path, and don't see anyone.

They told me that if it's a clear night, and especially when there's a special event in the sky, to get there by 5:00 pm when tickets go on sale. Tickets sell out in less than an hour.

I saw a Mississippi Kite on the main road. There's lots of birds there:




The exhibit room/gift shop and Challenger Center are built into the little hill; the top is a T-shaped space with the 36" dome at the center of the T-cross, with domes for 14" or so scopes on either end of the crossbar. The rest of the space is a concrete pad with red lights and electrical outlets for people to bring and plug in their own scopes. If you're in Houston and have a Saturday afternoon and evening, be sure to go.

...but please don't drive like a maniac in a SUV. When I left Saturday night I saw so many glowing eyes in the woods--it was errie. There was a huge clan of dear that freaked out and broke up on both sides, then freaked out some more because does and fawns got separated. I so very lightly tapped my horn to get them to move. This one raccoon got up on his hind legs and looked at me like I had something to give. People are idiots there and probably feed the wildlife when they're not supposed to. I have no qualms about chastising people I see doing stupid things like that. I think the park employees are way too lenient.

You can reserve Friday nights for groups of 30 or more. The Boy Scouts do that often and there are specific Boy Scout camping areas that are pretty cool. Anyone can reserve, though I have no idea what the waiting list is like.

The Columbus Grendl mentioned is a dark-sky site about 60 mi. west of Houston, built and operated by HAS, with very nice facilities (roll-off roof observatory with three fixed scopes, observing pads with electrical power, a bunk room and bathroom with AC, etc. There are a lot of active amateurs in the Houston area with various affiliations (HAS, FBAC*, etc.).

I've looked at pictures of that. It's a rectangular, flat-topped building. So, people just go out there and nap as needed? Why do you/they refer to it as a "dark-sky" site? Does that just mean that there's minimal light pollution nearby as opposed to, say, UH? I guess I'm wondering how dark it needs to be to qualify as a dark-sky site.

At GO I remarked to the guy in the 36" dome how cool it would be to make an apartment out of it--it's pretty roomy. I have a book on homes made out of silos and water towers. If I was Bill Gates, I'd buy an observatory and make it very comfy--with the telescope of course. I almost tripped on the stairs, btw. Why do I imagine many injuries in observatories?

This guy built his own observatory near the HAS site. Do you know this guy too?
http://kentbiggs.com/observatory.htm


I'd love to go to McDonald, but it's such a long drive. Then again, I drove alone from CT to Houston and that's 2,000 miles. Road trip! I still have never been to Big Bend State Park, I'm embarassed to say. It's just lack of compadres here and I don't think it's very safe for me to go alone.

Thanks, Sts60. I'll have some Blue Bell Mocha Almond Fudge for you, too, to keep those memory neurons working (bought some tonight :wink: ).

__________________
The perception of the comic is a tie of sympathy with other men, a pledge of sanity. We must learn by laughter as well as by tears and terror. ~ R. W. Emerson

It didn't occur to me to bug people and ask them, "Can I look through your telescope?" You're basically telling me to be a telescope slut.

I just hate to be that annoying kind of person who doesn't come prepared and always has to borrow other people's stuff. It's like, do you ever go camping or fishing and someone is always asking to borrow your knife or a lure? Most of the volunteers seem very nice; there was just one snotty guy, and younger than me, as well, who made some flippant comment in response to my comment about the weather. I may be blondish, but I'm not dumb...people like that I just want to smack upside the head. :x

__________________
The perception of the comic is a tie of sympathy with other men, a pledge of sanity. We must learn by laughter as well as by tears and terror. ~ R. W. Emerson

Binoculoculars...cheez'n'crackers, someone's gettin' me started again...

First off, let's see how much you need. Them WWII specials that can spot an enemy fly two time zones over are nice, but they're heavy. Something smaller is much nicer...7x35's are just a tad small in aperture, a little bigger is lot better. 7x50, 8x42, 9x63, 10x50, 11x70, 12x60...anything in that general size...those are about as big as you want to go without a support.

Where'n'how much? Orion Telescope has a nice selection.
So does bigbinoculars. And the selections at both are decent, in the $100 - $200 range (although if you're in the mood to go totally bananas, bigbinos has several models with 4" objectives, sturdy tripods, and price tags that are well north of $12,000).

You don't need to blow large amounts of cash. A decent set of binos, a good guidebook to the stars (might I recommend Philip Harrington's Touring the Universe Through Binoculars? I have a copy, and it's an excellent guidebook/reference work).

And for those days when your arms do get tired, you might want something to mount those binoculars on for a steadier view. If your binoculars come with a mount, it'll screw right on here. Otherwise, a handy-dandy little bungee cord works. And yes, I have used one of these...works right nice.

A good book, a little support, a decent set of binoculars...now go take an observing season and learn the sky. I'm still using this procedure, and having a great time doing it...

...someday I'm gonna change my screen name to The Binocular Kid...

__________________
"If a tree is cut down in the rainforest, and is used to make paper to print a book, and the book is really bad, and there's nobody that will read it, do you still hear a sucking sound?"
Charlie in Dayton, A.AsC.

Binoculoculars...cheez'n'crackers, someone's gettin' me started again...

Charlie, thanks, that's exactly what I wanted--someone to provide me with some vetted links and information. I don't get the comment above--are you some sort of binocular aficionado or expert? I have 7x35's but they are so old and dirty now and not nearly the magnification I desire. I just took them outside to look at the three (I kid you not) stars I could see from my vantage point. The 7x35's served me well enough on most counts, but I have more money now and the years aren't getting any longer.

I recall over 20 years, my step-grandfather had one on the Island and it was about 10 inches long, I think. We were looking at the moon and I remember detail being very clear. It's been too long and I can't remember the aperture.

For an example from one of your links: http://tinyurl.com/5thnd

I can deal with 15 inches, 11 lbs, $275 , no problem. But do I need to? Am I just going overboard? I also need a new tripod for my camera, which I have an 80-320 lens for; I wonder if my camera could sit on it. Put it this way, it's not just the sky I want to look at--when I'm at the beach I'm constantly scanning the water for stuff--I see sharks, turtles and surfers. :wink: I just like looking at things for the sake of looking and well, spotting sharks is useful.

I'm clueless about binocular/telescope companies. I want something that will last for years and like the above example, one I can easily carry on the plane and put the tripod in my suitcase.

I am counting on NASA and Mother Nature to make my birthday memorable and stick to the May 15th target date for the shuttle launch. I haven't yet decided from what location I will watch, but it will be as close as possible. I'd like to have bin/tel by May 1st and I will bring it to FL.

So, given that information, do you have any specific suggestions? I appreciate your suggestions.


Holy beejeebies, those binoculars on the bottom are some big daddies!

__________________
The perception of the comic is a tie of sympathy with other men, a pledge of sanity. We must learn by laughter as well as by tears and terror. ~ R. W. Emerson

For those of you who haven't been there, GO is in Brazos Bend State Park, on the Brazos River, and you can look for alligators, deer, racoons, and whatnot as you walk the path from the parking lot.

Yeah, but you better hurry. The Developers want to run The Grand Parkway through the park; that will upset the widlife and add to the sky glow.

(For those who aren't aware, Houston is the 4th largest city in the US, and the largest with no zoning laws! All development is controlled by the Developers, who want the Parkway to make the land they speculated on worth developing.)

I do some sky watching from my yard. Clear Lake isn't ideal, but once you get high enough, you can make out some things fairly well... Saturn's rings, Jupiter's moons, various nebula and clusters.

Idle thought... There are a lot of BABBsters from the Houston area. Why don't we reserve the George some Friday night? (Just don't let Grendl pick the date. :wink: )

__________________
Never attribute to malice what can be adequately explained by ignorance or stupidity.
Isaac Asimov

8) . Nice. Much larger than I expected.

I see they will be active during the solar eclipse. If you go, be sure you tell them the Sun is, quite possibly, green based on another George Observatory.

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Lighten up! This is a stellar board!

Yeah, when I was first reading sts60's post, I was thinking, "not so much 'you can look for' as 'you'd better look out for'". :wink:

I miss those; in my time in Wichita Falls, TX, the kites were my favourite birds there. Although I'm still not quite sure if they were Mississippi Kites or Swallow-tailed Kites; the coloration and location seem to indicate Mississippi, but I would swear their tails were more forked than the pictures of Mississippi Kites I've seen. Whichever it was, I especially like the way they use their tails at slow speeds. That's lovely.

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Yep, just like I was.

You will not be annoying (well you may be naturally annoying, but that doesn't figure in here j/k). I have yet to meet someone who doesn't want to talk about their scope. If you mention you're looking to buy a scope, you will probably get more information than you want. Heck, in my experience, most people who have scopes spend more time looking through other peoples scopes than their own at star parties, unless there is a specific reason to be looking through their own.

Now I didn't say go around for the next few years without your own equipment, but for several months, I don't think anyone would mind. For a variety of reasons, I spent almost six months going to our clubs dark sky site in addition to several star parties with no equipment other than binoculars. No, one, ever gave me a hard time, and in fact, several times I was allowed to have one member or another's scope to myself for a few hours while they were off looking though other peoples scopes.

__________________
Some try to tell me, thoughts they cannot defend,... - Moody Blues.

Neptune- The original Dark Matter.

The author feels that this technique of deliberately lying will actually make it easier for you to learn the ideas. - Donald Knuth

I definitely am an aficionado, and have some expertise/experience. I've done some research into sources of books and optics, I've done a fair amount of educational observing (i.e. teaching myself the sky...still learning...), and I've done quite a bit of show'n'tell with the astronomy club with kids. I get the question 'how do I get started' often enough that I can spot the dollar signs flickering in Dad's eye as he envisions how much a telescope costs. It's a visible relief to them to learn that they can get away with quality starter material for extremely reasonable prices, and if Junior/Juniorette loses interest in a month or two, the equipment will still have some use (vacations, nosy neighbors, etc).

I have somewhat of a rep here as being the resident binocular astronomy geek. Someday, my dream is to be able to afford/have a place to store/use one of JMI's finest --

the RB-66 6-inch reverse binoculars, at ~$3,000,
the RB-10 10-inch reverse binoculars, at ~$5,000, or
the RB-16 16-inch reverse binoculars, at ~$10,000.

...sigh...

Solid suggestions? Anything already linked to is good for a start. Also consider Apogee's various models. The Astro-Vue models are still on special, I note...they're the ones with the built-in nebula filters (I have a pair of the 12x60's, and they ain't too shabby at all...also note the price, which is exxxxxxxxtremely reasonable...). These models give double duty, perfect for daytime objects and nighttime astronomy.

As far as telescopes go, my experience is much more limited, to 3" - 5" reflectors. I really can't speak to refractors (except in general terms), although that's what binoculars are.

The bigger the refractor objective, the more light grasp you have, therefore the dimmer the object visible. Also, the heavier and more expensive. Apochromats give the best color reproduction, and the least false colors generated inside the lenses. Apo's are not cheap. Semi-apo's are less expensive, and you may put up with some color fringes on certain brighter objects. You gets what you pays for.

The starter refractor sizes are in the 50 - 60 mm aperture range (which really isn't big at all -- that's the same size as binoculars). The 80 - 100 mm aperture range has been very popular of late, as their size and weight lends to portability and convenience.

Remember the rule of thumb -- usable magnification is generally limited to 2x per mm / 50x per inch of objective aperture. A 100mm aperture refractor won't be usable beyond 200x. After that, things wash out to the point of unrecognizability. The lower quality of the optics, the lower power at which the image becomes unusable.

The optics (telescope AND binoculars) should be fully multi-coated -- that means ALL air/glass and glass/glass surfaces should be coated for maximum light transmission. You'd be surprised how many different pieces of glass are inside of a pair of binoculars, and every time the light makes the transmission-medium change, a bit of the light energy is lost. Coating on the glass surfaces minimizes this loss, and the more surfaces there are with the coating, the less light lost. Proper anti-reflection-coated lenses will look (as you look AT them, not THROUGH them) to be greenish or bluish. Stay away from this ruby-red pseudo-infra-red stuff. Also, glass type is important -- BaK4 is better than BK7 due to being harder, more scratch-resistant, and delivering a better quality image.

Stay away from the zoom-style binos for astronomy -- too much stuff inside there to get out of whack and lose light energy to. If it don't get to your eyeballs, it don't contribute to your enjoyment.

The higher magnification the optics are, the more prone the image is to jiggle. Several manufacturers sell image stabiliizer binoculars, where the wiggles are counteracted by electrically-moved mirrors inside the binos. However, we're talking lots of bucks here. For much less money, consider the Bino-Platform from Helix Manufacturing, any tripod with an appropriate mount screw (usually 1/4-20) for a bino mount (for capacity, think of the heaviest item you'll ever mount on the tripod, then buy one with a weight capacity 50% higher), one of the binocular parallelogram mounts (Orion's Paragon-Plus), or a super heavy duty tripod and fork mount (Orion has one, but we're talking $600 here...).

There is a very unique setup made by Trico Machine Products, the Sky Window. It's a pair of binoculars that look down into a first surface mirror, and most of the changes of viewing angle are handled by changing the angle of the viewing mirror. It's a combination refractor/reflector. While this setup is strictly for astronomy, the binoculars are removable for other (daytime/more conventional) uses. Any binoculars with screw mount capability are usable here, or Trico will sell you a set. The Sky Window is worth looking at. I got to use one once at a star party, and it was an extremely unique view with no cricks in the neck from straining at odd angles.

Yep -- they had that set down at the Apollo Rendezvous last year...they're the $12,000+ ones...how serious are ya, bucko?

...see what I meant about getting me started?...

__________________
"If a tree is cut down in the rainforest, and is used to make paper to print a book, and the book is really bad, and there's nobody that will read it, do you still hear a sucking sound?"
Charlie in Dayton, A.AsC.

Charlie, I'm going to print this thread out at work and keep it for future reference. :wink: Gee, I hope you do own some store at some point, just like the small bike shops around here (bicycles). They're so intimate and fun to visit compared to say, Sun & Ski or Oshmans. Especially if you don't try to get people to overspend.

What do you think about the one I linked to: http://tinyurl.com/5thnd It appears to fit my needs. Once again, I need something light, not too long and a tripod that will fold up and fit in my suitcase and decent capabilities for star gazing AND looking at wildlife. I like package deals, but I don't get why it's only a one-year warranty. ??

When I get stuck on a particular item I get a mental block. My price range for buying new equipment is usually in the $300 range. I bought my Raleigh bike on sale for a bit over $300 (then you have to pay for annoying little things like kickstands, bike racks, etc) and it's a nice-looking bike and has served me well (I'm not an extreme biker. The guy who adjusted my bike mocked me for taking it on the Memorial Park "extreme" paths, but my bike didn't break. I didn't appreciate that, so I hate talking to salespeople). :roll: The only thing that cost more was my camera, but I didn't pay for it.

Thanks for taking the time to post that info. Your advice is mucho appreciated!


Uhh, nearly half the price of my car? I don't think so....Big "binoculars" like that cost only $3.00...at George Observatory. :wink:

lEdited for link correction

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The perception of the comic is a tie of sympathy with other men, a pledge of sanity. We must learn by laughter as well as by tears and terror. ~ R. W. Emerson

Am I dull-witted today? I'm not sure I get what you mean, unless you mean that you are the other "George Observatory." If that's the case, a car and 150 miles will get you there.

I'll be at work at 5:00 pm on solar eclipse day...they always say to not look directly at the sun, but I always do. Perhaps, this has affected my sensitivity to headlights at night? As a teenager, at the beach one day, I went temporarily blind--couldn't see anything, but yellow light. Someone carried me to a picnic table where I layed down with a wet towel over my face. How embarrassing! But that someone who carried me later became my first real boyfriend.

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The perception of the comic is a tie of sympathy with other men, a pledge of sanity. We must learn by laughter as well as by tears and terror. ~ R. W. Emerson

Don't even get me started on development and developers. Between here and Florida it's enough to raise my blood pressure. The Grand Pkwy in regards to Brazos Bend State Park just makes my blood boil.

Clear Lake has gotten really developed since I came here 12 years ago. The Quintana Beach area is Ok, because it's not too affected by Dow Chemical's city-like lights.

As far as a Friday night reservation--that's a neat idea. I was thinking of asking a customer if she has ever taken her Girl Scout Troop out there. I haven't quite figured out how many Texans are posting here. I believe there are 3 of you in the Clear Lake area, no one in Houston proper where I am, but a bunch elsewhere--San Antonio, Dallas. Not everyone posts their location in their profile, though I like it when people do since it helps to clarify where they're coming from, figuratively and literally speaking.

The idea is neat, because there were a lot of young, and I mean the crying type young, there on Saturday. I love kids, but that doesn't mean I like the crying ones everywhere--like there and in movie theaters. Kids are A LOT of fun for science-related outings when they hit 4 or 5 years old.

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The perception of the comic is a tie of sympathy with other men, a pledge of sanity. We must learn by laughter as well as by tears and terror. ~ R. W. Emerson

There was a C8 parked on a fairly substantial pedestal inside the dome atop S&RI, Another, somewhat larger Cassegrain of unknown origin was there but not in service while I was there - the mount needed work.

No, not a native Texan but the better part of two decades in and around Houston for school and work. I worked for a small private space company, and spent a lot of time at JSC, but we didn't contract directly to NASA.

The big dome has a 36" Richey-Chretien telescope w/ Cassegrain optics, right? The East Dome has an 18" Newtonian Reflector that they paid $20K for. She said that was expensive, but that doesn't seem expensive to me in the world of office equipment I work in. The West Dome has a 14" Schmidt-Cassegrain. Is that what was there when you were there?...

She mentioned C. Robert O'Dell at Rice.
Bob O'Dell was chief scientist for the Hubble for a time. He's also an aerobatic pilot with books published on the subject. I had him for one of my space physics classes at Rice.

The 36" Cassegrain has a dual secondary mirror, which can be rotated to give either f/5.6 or f/11 (something like that - it's been 10 years now...). When I was around, they had various 11 to 14" type scopes in the E and W domes; the 18" must be new(-er, anyway).

There were a bunch of little kids there--all sorts of people--but kids have no conception of 20,000 degrees or millions and billions of years. When my mother took us to a planetarium when I was four years old, I learned the sun would "blow up" and walked around for two weeks or so thinking we were going to be fried to a crisp any day. I felt really sad about this (so my mother says).
It's funny how we can take stuff like that so seriously when we were kids, isn't it? I used to be a little hypochondriac for a while.

You know, for the zillions of times I've been there walking and biking, I have to admit walking that dark path from the parking lot to the observatory is kind of creepy knowing that the alligators sit in the muck right up to the paths. Half way down the path they use red path lights, so it's even darker... The largest one I've seen I had named Big Daddy--he was about 12 feets and husky.
We saw one little guy who was about 18 inches, staring up at us from the edge of the water with a toothy Sgt. Snorkel grin and a wistful "just one finger, please, pretty please" expression. :P

They told me that if it's a clear night, and especially when there's a special event in the sky, to get there by 5:00 pm when tickets go on sale. Tickets sell out in less than an hour.
They do, but IIRC you want to be there ahead of 5 PM to get in line on such days.

People are idiots there and probably feed the wildlife when they're not supposed to. I have no qualms about chastising people I see doing stupid things like that. I think the park employees are way too lenient.
One of the park rangers told us he came upon a man and his young son standing on either side of a 6' alligator, whapping it with sticks, to "see if it would do something". If that alligator had done his Darwinian duty, he would have been destroyed, but I would have given him a medal.

I've looked at pictures of that. It's a rectangular, flat-topped building. So, people just go out there and nap as needed? Why do you/they refer to it as a "dark-sky" site? Does that just mean that there's minimal light pollution nearby as opposed to, say, UH? I guess I'm wondering how dark it needs to be to qualify as a dark-sky site.
Well, it's no Cerro Tololo, but it's about as dark as you're gonna get until you get out into West Texas. The flat-topped building is half air-conditioned office/break room and half roll-off observatory with three fixed 14-inch-ish telescopes. The bunk room/bathroom facilities are a separate building.

This guy built his own observatory near the HAS site. Do you know this guy too?
http://kentbiggs.com/observatory.htm
I don't recall meeting him. But that's a nice job he did, no?

I'd love to go to McDonald, but it's such a long drive. Then again, I drove alone from CT to Houston and that's 2,000 miles. Road trip! I still have never been to Big Bend State Park, I'm embarassed to say. It's just lack of compadres here and I don't think it's very safe for me to go alone.
Maybe some of your fellow area BABBers want to put together a trip out there? I've driven across Texas, but I'm afraid starting from Maryland is a bit much right now.

Thanks, Sts60. I'll have some Blue Bell Mocha Almond Fudge for you, too, to keep those memory neurons working (bought some tonight :wink: ).
Be advised, I'd like some Cookies 'n' Cream Blue Bell next time. :wink:

BTW, about binoculars - Astronomy has a survey about low-priced binoculars in their latest issue. But Charlie in Dayton has already demonstrated great guru-osity on the subject...

So, it appears that you've made your mind up to go 'scope instead of binos. So be it, you know your wants and situation better than anyone else. That being said, short tube 80's are extremely popular no matter who makes 'em (Takahashis are popular with people whose mythical uncles have just left 'em those East Texas oil wells). The Orion comes with everything needed in a package deal...

I went looking for the Paragon tripod specs, specifically how much weight it'd handle (there's nothing worse than a flimsy tripod when you're trying to get a steady image). Didn't say...but you might want to consider just buying the tube assembly, and going for the XHD (eXtra Heavy Duty) tripod. I wouldn't consider it overkill, and if you ever upgrade the scope to something a tad bigger, you're covered.

According to here, ..."By the way, the Celestron 80WF, the Orion ST80, Skywatcher and a lot of other telescopes are the same. All made by Synta (China)...". If this is to be believed, then reviews about the other brands mentioned are directly applicable to your situlation.

Here's a thread on another astronomy board about ST 80's.

A user's review.

A review from Cloudy Nights

Another user review.

Astromart's review of the Celestron 102, the next step up. An interesting read.

If you've already got an appropriate tripod/rings/finder, Orion sells some nice larger refractors in the tube-only mode.

So, if I recall right, this is to take down Florida way and watch the Shuttle launch, right? If so, you've got the time to practice a bit turning that 80 into a telephoto lens...we want pitchers!!!

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"If a tree is cut down in the rainforest, and is used to make paper to print a book, and the book is really bad, and there's nobody that will read it, do you still hear a sucking sound?"
Charlie in Dayton, A.AsC.

Is there anything wrong with that? As I said, I need a tripod anyway. My 80-310 camera lens should take pictures when stationary--I have a tendency to waver too much, though I can't figure out if the tripod of that Orion is usable for my camera.

I tend to be impulsive at times, so I read the Q & A on that site. I will try again this Saturday to see if the weather cooperates and look at other people's telescopes; although I can understand this, I have to SEE for myself.

Type Refractor
Diameter (Mirror or Lens) 80mm
Light Grasp 7.8 sq. in.
Focal Length/ F Ratio 400mm, f/5.0
Magnification
(w/ included eyepieces) 16x, 40x
Highest theoretical magnification 189x
For the Orion 80mm it says the tripod is 11 lbs. That seems adequate, no?

I shall read up on all this info you're providing. Thanks!
I have nothing. Must start from scratch.

Say how? I'm wondering just how close I need/want to be to the shuttle launch. A local told me that I can get excellent views from the Cape Canaveral port entrance, but I'd like to be closer. My camera lens is 310mm, so...I'd like to watch from the gantry, but lol, that ain't gonna happen. This picture was taken with a 50-80mm lens from the gantry at 80mm. Perhaps I could go the day before and hide in the bush, camp out all night...and get arrested (or attacked by the wild boars).

Anyway, with the bad luck I'm having with Saturday nights, I'm not getting my hopes up too high about NASA being on schedule. I wouldn't mind it being delayed a day or two, because there'd be less traffic on a Monday or Tuesday, though everybody just pulls over to the side of the road and watches wherever they are...on I95, etc.

I have no computer at the house in FL, btw, and need to find a reliable phone number. When I was there during a satellite launch (which I missed by one day out of laziness), the local news was inefficient in announcing this and the delays. Must find out if there's some "shuttle hotline," lol. I would suspect, however, that since this is a MUCH bigger deal, there will be more info.

If the launch doesn't go off I can at least visit NASA again and this time I will take my 310mm lens to the Gantry.

Edit lens size

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The perception of the comic is a tie of sympathy with other men, a pledge of sanity. We must learn by laughter as well as by tears and terror. ~ R. W. Emerson

It had just come up..... here

Wow. That was ugly, but it sounds like the sun had a silver lining that day.

I am curious if you do remember the Sun actually looking yellow. Was it a yellow impression with your eyes closed? The BA, IIRC, mentioned this circumstance, and others, in his book to attempt to explain why yellow is the impression people have of the white sun.

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Lighten up! This is a stellar board!

Grendl,

information on getting passes to Shuttle launches, and hotlines, radio freqs, etc., can be found here and here. Nobody gets much closer than a few miles (even the rescue crew is IIRC about 2 miles away); I've seen launches from various places at KSC and CCAFS, such as in front of the LCC (about 3 miles away), and it was spectacular even though the Shuttle stack looked like a toy to the nake eye. So you'll get a good view from a lot of places. Bring that long lens, but don't forget to just look at it too!

Not a bit. I was wondering as I wrote that if it would come out right. Oughtta listen to them there little voices a bit more...

It's sold as a camera tripod, which means it should be equipped with the industry standard 1/4-20 threaded camera mounting stud.

Well, for the 80mm scope and just about any camera, that ought to work. Between you/me/the wall, I'd be tempted to get the heavier-duty tripod if you ever decide to upgrade the O(ptical)T(ube)A(ssembly). Heavier OTA's would overload that little tripod. Hauling around a somewhat heavier tripod isn't that much of a hassle, it's more of a stability guarantee, and besides, when you buy that once-in-a-lifetime-on-eBay 1000mm telephoto lens, you'll need something that'll hold it.

Made it down to KSC once, and really enjoyed the tour. Hope you have as much of a good time there as I did.

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"If a tree is cut down in the rainforest, and is used to make paper to print a book, and the book is really bad, and there's nobody that will read it, do you still hear a sucking sound?"
Charlie in Dayton, A.AsC.

Yes, but they were actually laughing at me, because I suddenly started staggering from the sudden loss and confusion of not being able to see where I was going. We were not being sweet, little innocents on the beach prior to that. Whatever we were doing contributed to the fact that I got overheated without realizing it and didn't dip in the cold L.I. Sound water to bring my body temperature down. I have had a tendency to look directly at the sun since I was a kid, as well. It is not true that you can't look directly at the sun. I'm surprised I'm not blind, nor need glasses. I also figured that Tom thought I was...uh, pliable, since I was apparently incapable of handling whatever we were doing. ops: I have an equally weird thing happen to me in Quebec just prior to that: my legs wouldn't stop shaking in bed, to the point it was annoying my best friend who was sharing the hotel room bed with me. They were REALLY shaking. It was freaky, but the shaking eventually stopped and I was fine.
LOL, I thought about that after I posted it, because I have the BA's book and read that section, though again, I do look directly at the sun, so I'm not sure about that. I always say I "yellowed-out" that day, but it isn't really yellow in the sense we know of the primary color yellow. It was more like staring into a lightbulb. My eyes were never shut until I layed down with a towel over my face. I think we have the memory of yellow--we think the sun is yellow and so remember it that way and refer to it in speech that way. Hence, I "yellowed-out" like the sun, because "whited-out" would sound like snow. Back then I did not have the fortune of having the BA's book and was unaware the sun was actually white and why we think it's yellow. We didn't even study stuff like that in school. But in fact, everything just went BRIGHT in my vision--a bright absence of color. In retrospect it's funny, but at the time, I thought I had lost my vision forever. I was only 14 years old.

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The perception of the comic is a tie of sympathy with other men, a pledge of sanity. We must learn by laughter as well as by tears and terror. ~ R. W. Emerson

Thanks Sts60, I signed up for the launch newsletter, though that won't help me while I'm in FL since I have no computer. The thing I need is a phone number, or I guess I can just call someone who can get on the computer, and for that I have a resourceful person in mind.

I have been to KSC...last June 2004. On the bus tour out to the Gantry, they show where the media and family members are allowed to watch and that it's roughly 3 miles away from the pad. I still like the idea of my sneaking into the bush, though. :wink:

But sadly, I have no hope of seeing the shuttle launch. I read this article in the Chronicle yesterday:

It costs $100 to change my airplane ticket; I can't afford to play a guessing game with the launch date. I wish they would wait until they have an almost definite day, instead of announcing the wide launch window. I usually take my vacation in late June or July 4th, like I did last year, so I'll be ](*,) if it goes off then.

However, when I was there last June and the satellite was waiting for a non-lightning day to go off, there seemed to be a buzz or energy about the place. I don't know what they do when the crawler is moving the shuttle to the pad: do they continue to let the buses go by the crawler road? Even that would be neat to see. There are two tours you can take--the standard one to the Gantry, where I took that above picture from or you can pay more to get a bit closer. However, employees told me it's not that much closer and the times are limited. There's so much to see at NASA; I never got to the Titusville side of things--the astronaut memorial and such. I was interested in the launch pads and viewing Merritt Island and of course, the Saturn V building was loads of fun. I bought the $40 package, I believe.

Oh well, it's better that they be absolutely safe than sorry. Another catastrophe would not only be tragic for the astronauts and their families, but it would further give those people who don't support spending $ on manned flights even more reason to complain about the 1% of the federal budget that goes to NASA. :roll:

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The perception of the comic is a tie of sympathy with other men, a pledge of sanity. We must learn by laughter as well as by tears and terror. ~ R. W. Emerson

[quote]No, don't worry, I didn't take any offense. It takes a lot for me to be offended and I know how tone is not always easy to convey in forums. The only thing that bothers me is when someone is condescending or patronizing or thinks I'm dumb. I sound "dizzy" at times, but I'm not a dumb blonde. My response sounds equally "wrong," as well. I simply meant, "Do you think my decision is OK?" Do you think that particular scope will afford me decent views of the sky and land?

Hmm, that's a good thing.

Baby steps...baby steps (reference to "What About Bob?" movie). Tripods aren't expensive; I can always get another one later if I ever buy a 1000mm lens, lol. Baby steps, Charlie, don't go vicariously buying things for me now.

Yes, I know, I remember when I attempted to post the picture below from the Saturn V building, you came back with one of you touching the moon rock. I hadn't thought of doing that there, but when I went to JSC in August, I stole your idea and had a Japanese tourist take a picture of me touching the JSC moon rock. However, I look yucky in those pictures and won't post them. I had a great time at KSC last year--lots of foreigners there, especially the Irish and English, who enjoyed the "cheap petrol."

I like this picture from KSC. At JSC they have this structure that simulates what the thrusters' exhaust would feel like, though the air is cool. On a hot day it feels good:


BTW, I needed a "Rent An Aerospace Engineer" for this day. I like the little phrase at the bottom: "Build a little/Test a little/Fix a little and then back to Build a little. I have a non-glare picture, but it's not as clear.

Hangar 9:

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The perception of the comic is a tie of sympathy with other men, a pledge of sanity. We must learn by laughter as well as by tears and terror. ~ R. W. Emerson

I'd like to note while on the side-topic, that I learned nothing in the Hangar 9 building, nor was I even given the time to watch the TV film about Yeager. As you can see, I am brevity-challenged, so I wrote a lengthy and harsh critique on the JSC comment form. It probably was thrown away since it was insulting employees there. The thing is, most of their tour guides are clueless. I complimented only two people: one girl who worked at the "thruster simulator building" and the old man in the original Mission Control Room. He encouraged questions and didn't even crack an ironic smile when two 20-something guys from Utah asked if any other countries had landed on the moon.

There was some guy in a shuttle-mock up that appeared to be holding an audience's attention, but I didn't stop for that. Basically, the tram tour is a teach-yourself sort of thing. No wonder, so many people are clueless about NASA.

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The perception of the comic is a tie of sympathy with other men, a pledge of sanity. We must learn by laughter as well as by tears and terror. ~ R. W. Emerson

I have to say the presentations and displays are much slicker, but I like the old not-so-fancy arrangement. You may want to repost your comments, or call the public relations folks directly, to make your case (as a space advocate) that they need to do better getting the message to the people.

Which satellite did you launch at CCAFS? And (belatedly) congratulations on it! =D>

BTW, they built the Saturn V structure at KSC after the last time I'd been out there. The pictures folks have posted (both here and at apollohoax are very cool. I have a few pictures I took during my time out at CCAFS/KSC; must scan and add some more. But I'm not really much of a photographer. ops: