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Old 30-March-2005, 01:57 PM
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Default MS Word's grammer checker failed by Prof.

I'm surprised no one else posted about this.
Quote:
What's wrong with this sentence?

"Microsoft the company should big improve Word grammar check."

A University of Washington associate professor ran it through the grammar check in Microsoft Word, and the software found it acceptable.
I checked it myself and Word says it's ok.
LINKY (as yes, I know that LINKY is not a word)
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Old 30-March-2005, 02:00 PM
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Default Re: MS Word's grammer checker failed by Prof.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Swift
I'm surprised no one else posted about this.
Quote:
What's wrong with this sentence?

"Microsoft the company should big improve Word grammar check."

A University of Washington associate professor ran it through the grammar check in Microsoft Word, and the software found it acceptable.
I checked it myself and Word says it's ok.
LINKY (as yes, I know that LINKY is not a word)
Years ago, when Word first included a grammar checker, I ran the intro narration to Star Trek through it.

It told me that "Where no man has gone before" was "gender exclusive" and suggested "no person" instead, but did not tell me that "to boldly go" was a split infinitive.

Thusly, I gave up on it right away, and have never really used it.

Hmm. I wonder if it still does that . . .

[Edit: Just tried it in MS Word 2002. It tells me there's nothing wrong with it at all, now]
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Old 30-March-2005, 02:22 PM
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The surprise is that people are surprised about this. I figured out a long time ago that Words' grammer checker would have to improve by several orders of magnitude to SUCK.
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Old 30-March-2005, 02:26 PM
Sotos Sotos is offline
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Run this through:

Quote:
Abraham Lincoln was a successful president, for him belief in the American life way.
Mine says it's okely-dokely.
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Old 30-March-2005, 03:23 PM
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I'm not trying to be politically incorrect, but don't both of those sentences sound like bad-Hollywood-1950s-Indian-trying-to-talk-like-white-man?

Quote:
Abraham Lincoln was a successful president, for him belief in the American life way.

Microsoft the company should big improve Word grammar check.
IMHO, Microsoft in heep big trouble with grammer check.
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Old 30-March-2005, 04:00 PM
mopc mopc is offline
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Default Re: MS Word's grammer checker failed by Prof.

Well, first as a student of Linguistics I would never even consider using a computer grammar check, for no grammar has been fully analised, let alone programmed into MS Word. No computer is capable of analysing human language grammar. It's too complex.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanF
[Years ago, when Word first included a grammar checker, I ran the intro narration to Star Trek through it.

It told me that "Where no man has gone before" was "gender exclusive" and suggested "no person" instead, but did not tell me that "to boldly go" was a split infinitive.

Thusly, I gave up on it right away, and have never really used it.

Hmm. I wonder if it still does that . . .
Speakers of English are still indoctrinated to believe that "split infinitives" are a mistake? I read a lot about those fake rules that teachers invent to justify their own existence, but the "don't split the infinitive" 'rule' rivals with the "don't end a sentence with a preposition" "rule" as the two most absurd and annoying products of prescriptive grammar dementia!!!!
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Old 30-March-2005, 04:37 PM
W.F. Tomba W.F. Tomba is offline
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Default Re: MS Word's grammer checker failed by Prof.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mopc
Speakers of English are still indoctrinated to believe that "split infinitives" are a mistake? I read a lot about those fake rules that teachers invent to justify their own existence, but the "don't split the infinitive" 'rule' rivals with the "don't end a sentence with a preposition" "rule" as the two most absurd and annoying products of prescriptive grammar dementia!!!!
Right on, brother!
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Old 30-March-2005, 10:59 PM
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Default Re: MS Word's grammer checker failed by Prof.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mopc
Speakers of English are still indoctrinated to believe that "split infinitives" are a mistake? I read a lot about those fake rules that teachers invent to justify their own existence, but the "don't split the infinitive" 'rule' rivals with the "don't end a sentence with a preposition" "rule" as the two most absurd and annoying products of prescriptive grammar dementia!!!!
Split the infinitive by all means as I find this often adds a poetic lilt to a narrative. However, I am not so sure that ending sentences with a preposition does anything other than make the writer sound like the toughest 3 years of their life were those in 5th Grade......
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Old 30-March-2005, 11:49 PM
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The anti-split infinitive rule, no matter what, is a rule "up with which I cannot put" :P

So AGN you would say/write "this is something about which I can't do anything" instead of "this is something I can't do anything about"?????
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Old 31-March-2005, 12:15 AM
W.F. Tomba W.F. Tomba is offline
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Default Re: MS Word's grammer checker failed by Prof.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AGN Fuel
Split the infinitive by all means as I find this often adds a poetic lilt to a narrative. However, I am not so sure that ending sentences with a preposition does anything other than make the writer sound like the toughest 3 years of their life were those in 5th Grade......
That's a pretty tough standard to live by. And after all, what are you afraid of? These picky rules are just not worth worrying about.
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Old 31-March-2005, 12:47 AM
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Default Re: MS Word's grammer checker failed by Prof.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AGN Fuel
Quote:
Originally Posted by mopc
Speakers of English are still indoctrinated to believe that "split infinitives" are a mistake? I read a lot about those fake rules that teachers invent to justify their own existence, but the "don't split the infinitive" 'rule' rivals with the "don't end a sentence with a preposition" "rule" as the two most absurd and annoying products of prescriptive grammar dementia!!!!
Split the infinitive by all means as I find this often adds a poetic lilt to a narrative. However, I am not so sure that ending sentences with a preposition does anything other than make the writer sound like the toughest 3 years of their life were those in 5th Grade......
I think it depends on the sentence, really. Obviously "where you at?" isn't the best sentence, but for some reason ending sentences with prepositions in English sounds okay a lot of the time. Other languages, not so much.
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Old 31-March-2005, 12:47 AM
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Default Re: MS Word's grammer checker failed by Prof.

Quote:
Originally Posted by W.F. Tomba
Quote:
Originally Posted by AGN Fuel
Split the infinitive by all means as I find this often adds a poetic lilt to a narrative. However, I am not so sure that ending sentences with a preposition does anything other than make the writer sound like the toughest 3 years of their life were those in 5th Grade......
That's a pretty tough standard to live by. And after all, what are you afraid of? These picky rules are just not worth worrying about.

No, no. It's "after all, of what are you afraid" and "about these picky rules are not worth worrying"
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Old 31-March-2005, 12:55 AM
W.F. Tomba W.F. Tomba is offline
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Default Re: MS Word's grammer checker failed by Prof.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Normandy6644
I think it depends on the sentence, really. Obviously "where you at?" isn't the best sentence, but for some reason ending sentences with prepositions in English sounds okay a lot of the time. Other languages, not so much.
"Where you at?" sounds bad because it's either slang or a "non-standard" dialect. In Standard American English, the "at" in that sentence is superfluous, not just in the wrong place (and of course the verb is missing).

The similar construction "Who are you with?" sounds fine to me. "With whom are you?" sounds ludicrous.
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Old 31-March-2005, 01:02 AM
W.F. Tomba W.F. Tomba is offline
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Default Re: MS Word's grammer checker failed by Prof.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mopc
Quote:
Originally Posted by W.F. Tomba
Quote:
Originally Posted by AGN Fuel
Split the infinitive by all means as I find this often adds a poetic lilt to a narrative. However, I am not so sure that ending sentences with a preposition does anything other than make the writer sound like the toughest 3 years of their life were those in 5th Grade......
That's a pretty tough standard to live by. And after all, what are you afraid of? These picky rules are just not worth worrying about.

No, no. It's "after all, of what are you afraid" and "about these picky rules are not worth worrying"
As I said, that's a pretty tough standard by which to live! For what did they make all these rules, anyway? Trying to follow them all is more pain than that to which I want to subject myself! #-o
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Old 31-March-2005, 02:46 AM
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WordPerfect says the sentence is incorrect. I guess they have a better grammar checker.
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Old 31-March-2005, 03:18 AM
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So tell me, what is the difference between "it seems wrong" and "it needs clean"?
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Old 31-March-2005, 03:39 AM
W.F. Tomba W.F. Tomba is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evan
So tell me, what is the difference between "it seems wrong" and "it needs clean"?
"Seems" is a linking verb, so it gets followed by a subject complement, in this case an adjective. "Needs" is a transitive action verb, so it must take a direct object, which must be a noun or something that can act as one---not the adjective "clean". "It needs cleaning" is correct because "cleaning" is a gerund and thus functions as a noun.

I am at a loss to explain "It needs cleaned", however, which is perfectly normal usage in some North American dialects.
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Old 31-March-2005, 04:44 AM
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But, "it seems to be wrong" and "it needs to be clean" are both correct.

Also, both wrong and clean are nouns and verbs. (one sense for clean as a noun)
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Old 31-March-2005, 05:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evan
But, "it seems to be wrong" and "it needs to be clean" are both correct.

Also, both wrong and clean are nouns and verbs. (one sense for clean as a noun)
The verb "seem" can get an adjective (it seems clean) and a "to+verb" complement (it seems to fall).
The verb "need" can get a verb complement (with or negated also without "to" = "he needs to clean" and "he needn't rise") or a noun phrase complement "he needs a clean room".

It's like chemistry - each word in each human language has certain "chemical properties" that enable them to be linked with certain kinds of complements but not others.
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Old 31-March-2005, 05:14 AM
W.F. Tomba W.F. Tomba is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evan
But, "it seems to be wrong" and "it needs to be clean" are both correct.
In that case you're using an infinitive phrase. Infinitives can act as nouns, adjectives, or adverbs. In "It seems to be wrong" the infinitive phrase acts as an adjective, while in "It needs to be clean" it acts as a noun.
Quote:
Also, both wrong and clean are nouns and verbs. (one sense for clean as a noun)
It's irrelevant that these two words can be verbs, and that wrong can be a noun. In this case it is an adjective. As for clean as a noun, I haven't heard it used that way often, and never without an article. It's actually not quite possible to tell which part of speech it is in "It needs clean", since it does not fit into any normal syntactical structure when used that way.

Facile comparisons won't get you very far in grammar. "I'm going to school" and "I'm going to die" are not analogous constructions.
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