Probably 95% of the SUV's I see will never go off-road, and might be put in 4WD a couple times (we don't get a lot of snow).

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Earth First! We'll mine the rest later.

LOL... that made me think. Isn't the term "luxury sports utility vehicle" an oxymoron? Luxury / Utility ??? Anyone else find that funny or am I just being peverse?

Yeah, most of the people who buy SUVs aren't buying them to go off-road, they are buying them to cart around their kids and kids' friends and kids' gear. SUVs have replaced mini-vans for that purpose. Were/are mini-vans as big of gass guzzlers as SUVs?

(edited to fix quote order)

I remember the first time I saw such a case of oxymoronic labeling. Obviously the maker is just trying to cast a huge net for anybody willing to take the bait. I believe it was a late 80's or early 90's Lumina. It was touted as a luxury sports sedan, or something silly like that. In an effort to snare the Euro-philes, they even had a row of little flag decals by the model name - flags of European nations.

I guess luxury and sport are very subjective, and since when is marketing about accuracy, but holy smokes - a car with 4 doors, electric windows, AC, FRONT-WHEEL DRIVE!!!!!

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Don of Borg - Cool, Calm, Collective.

"Within the next generation I believe that the world's leaders will discover that infant conditioning and narco-hypnosis are more efficient, as instruments of government, than clubs and prisons, and that the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

Farmer. Just where does the guilt meter start? Is it 20 mpg? 30? 40?

Just wondering because I drive a mid-size SUV (a blazer) that gets 18 to 20 mpg, and I'm wondering just how bad I need to be feeling. :-?

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. . . My moustache is touching my brain!!!!

My sister-in-law has 5 kids. They had a Chevy Astro minivan and it was horrible on trying to get all the kids in and the first bit of cargo (like groceries) taxed the capacity.

They recently bought a Ford Expedition. They say there's far more room for the kids and they can now actually carry stuff.

Additionally, I just compared them on fueleconomy.gov and surprisingly, the Expedition is only 1 gpm (combined) worse. (16 hwy / 20city / 17 combined for the minivan; 14 hwy / 19 city / 16 combined for the Expedition.)

Another point of interest, both were classed as "no" on the "gas guzzler" category.

I would say people can guage their own level of responsibility. If you drive something that is well utilized, that would be the key. If a person drives a 3/4 ton Suburban and 95% of it's time is hauling 1 or 2 passengers on paved roads - that, IMO, is not very responsible. It certainly isn't efficient.

I'm not saying we should have laws about what people drive. If people want to spend they're money in such a manner - go for it. But then don't complain about the price of gas.

Reminds me of the co-worker who was bragging about the low taxes they pay, then in the next sentence complained about the low quality of their district's schools.

I live on a hobby farm and do not even own a truck. I get the must-not-be-a-real-man look from my neighbors on a regular basis. I've got a trailer, and for the couple times a week I need to haul stuff, I hook it up. That's efficiency and nothing is wasted by my having to drive a truck for the 99% of the time my car is used to move 1 or 2 people from place to place.

Personally, I think we should tack about another $1 to $1.50 excise tax onto the price of a gallon of gas. The money would circulate back into the economy anyway, so it will not really be lost. It would most definitely alter behaviors and set us up better for a less oil dependent future. The flaw is of course entrusting our government bureacracy to spend the money wisely.

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Don of Borg - Cool, Calm, Collective.

"Within the next generation I believe that the world's leaders will discover that infant conditioning and narco-hypnosis are more efficient, as instruments of government, than clubs and prisons, and that the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

Well...I just bought one of those big 4-door, 4-wheel drive, Hemi-powered pick-up trucks. Might as well lump me in with the uninformed-but-it-makes-me-feel-better-about-myself-to-put-other-people-down-while-striving-to-be-oh-so-politically-correct stereotypes.

My bold.
=D> Wow, is that absolutely right, especially your analogy to schools. I hear that all the time in Ohio. People are constantly complaining about how bad the schools are, but don't want to spend a dime on them. Whether you suggest sales taxes, property taxes, income tax, or whatever, they only want it if someone else pays for it. Remember TANSTAAFL (There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch).

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At night the stars put on a show for free (Carole King)

Grama loreto: Interesting hyphenated sterotype. Why do you think you are putting other people down? And does it really make you feel better to do so? Or was that totally tongue-in-cheek. (My symbol-of-the-day, the hyphen).

Swift: Yes, in MN and WI, USA (and I think in most if not all of US), schools are pricipally paid for by local property taxes. We just had referendums last Tuesday in ours and the neighboring districts. Whichever side you take in the debate, you gotta admit a district needs to do something when they are holding classes in the hallway, converting the loading dock into classrooms, and so forth. The inside scoop is that all of them will fail. We are in a definite anti-tax mode right now.

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Don of Borg - Cool, Calm, Collective.

"Within the next generation I believe that the world's leaders will discover that infant conditioning and narco-hypnosis are more efficient, as instruments of government, than clubs and prisons, and that the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

18 cents. Just a little over thirty years ago, in a price war situation in New Mexico.

This afternoon? $2.229

The price of gasoline is a simple pure unadulterated rip off by the energy companies. Why do you think they reported all time record profits for last year?

The average cost to produce a barrel of oil in North America is $6 to $8 US. The cost of tar sand synthetic crude production is $12 to $18 per barrel. The cost to produce a barrel in Saudi Arabia is about $2.

A barrel of crude contains 159 liters. It can be turned into between 50 to 110 liters of gasoline depending on the process and crude type. With sweet light crude it can even be higher. Using high numbers if we factor in transportation costs at $2 per barrel and refining costs at $4 per barrel we have an average cost at around $15 to make 75 liters of gasoline. That is $00.20 cents per liter or less, sometimes much less.

The gas stations only make a few cents profit per liter. Here the tax rate is around 45% of the pump price which is hovering around $00.82 US per liter.

So the energy companies are making at least 100% or more profit and this doesn't even count that the residuals from refining a barrel of oil are also sold.

BTW, there is no shortage of reserves. The estimated extractable in ground reserves of bitumen just in Alberta is equvialent to 1.6 trillion barrels.

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When I am done here I think I will go create something from metal.

The transportation cost has to be higher, what with the price of gas

Nope. $2.00 is a real number. The cost of shipping a barrel from the middle east to Europe is around $1.50 per barrel and about $2.50 to North America. Oil produced and used in North America has lower cost so the average is around $2.00. Most of the shipping is by ship, train and pipeline. Diesel trucks are used only for the "last mile".

BTW, what the heck is messing up the thread width?

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When I am done here I think I will go create something from metal.

I just put nearly $20US in my '85 CRX. Only 115,000 miles -- almost new!
The worst thing about it is that although it gets great mileage, the tank is so small I have to fill it frequently.

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Cum catapultae proscribeantur tum soli proscripti catapultas habeant.

It's the same with my car. On the plus side, it reduces the "ouch" factor. I've pulled up to pumps with $60+ showing on them from the last person to fill up.

Captain Kidd, this thread sure adds meaning to your sign-off.

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Don of Borg - Cool, Calm, Collective.

"Within the next generation I believe that the world's leaders will discover that infant conditioning and narco-hypnosis are more efficient, as instruments of government, than clubs and prisons, and that the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

$2.90/gallon for Premium today at Circle K in San Diego.
Politics 101!

That fueleconomy.gov site has some seriously curious ideas about how to group 'comarable' cars together in groups. For example, they have a "two seater" class. We'd like to recommend that, in the interests of fuel economy, you might want to consider the best-rated car, the 1-litre Honda Insight, rather than the lowest-rated car, the 6.2-litre Lamborghini Murcielago. Other than that, it's a pretty close-run thing, obviously.

Similiarly, if you're after a 'compact' car, perhaps you'd like a 1.3-litre Honda Civic Hybrid, rather than a 6-litre Bentley Continental GT.

Funny, I never notice the prices until they are unusually low. ops: