This is one of those nice self fulfilling statements that is so very easy to make.
Any counterexample is easily dismissed by "that one is not a proper medium"

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It would be hard to imagine an uglier building that hadn't won a major architectural award.
Trying to make sense of computers, The Error Log.

Ah Yes. Another variant of the old No True Scotsman fallacy.

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"A mystic is a person who is puzzled before the obvious but who understands the nonexistent." -- Elbert Hubbard

Lets put it another way. Of all the mediums that I know of who travel far and wide to distances of 100 miles or more, none of them get paid for the readings, they claim petrol money obviously which comes from church donations and that is all.

Also the Spiritualist church gives donations to many charities around the World. £72,331 has been raised in the past 10 years for good causes.

That doesn't answer the question.

Why not?

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"The plan does not involve mayonaise."
"... I knew there was a catch."

You can't take the sky from me.

Why do you think they should charge?

Oh no you don't. You don't answer a question by asking another. Rather, you don't avoid answering a question by trying to turn it around. I'll answer your question when you answer mine.

Now, why not?

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"The plan does not involve mayonaise."
"... I knew there was a catch."

You can't take the sky from me.

If your asking why 'proper' mediums dont charge its because it is against the beliefs of the National Spiritualist Church. Also because most genuine mediums believe that mediumship should be used to help others, not for their own gain.

I have nothing to hide. I was just wondering why you think they should charge?

That's a mischaracterization...I would be very pleased if you would present some actual evidence to back up your claims...you have not done so...

How is that relevent to this discussion??

Originally Posted by Moonrock
I dont know, theres no pleasing some people.

If you even bothered to read my posts properly you could have gone and read the link I just posted. It gives you plenty of evidence of a very well known scientist who studied an apparition and concluded that such things exist,,, Now off you go and then come back and well debate it.

Quote=Moonrock:
Also the Spiritualist church gives donations to many charities around the World.

Its just an example that the popular held belief on this board that all mediums are just charlatans in it for the money is completely wrong.

Fair enough, though I point out that the Catholic Church doesn't believe in permarital sex. Doesn't seem to stop most Catholics. What the church says and what the members do are often very different.

Why? How do you know this? Do you know most "genuine" mediums personally?

Then you should be more forthcoming with your answers.

I didn't say I think they should. I asked you why a "genuine" medium wouldn't.

That said, I see absolutely no reason why anyone with a specialized skill set shouldn't be allowed to use those skills to support themselves.

You seem to have decided that monetary exchange is some sort of moral filter. If someone is benifiting from their trade, they're somehow less entitled to their skills.

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"The plan does not involve mayonaise."
"... I knew there was a catch."

You can't take the sky from me.

If their "powers" were actually real, then the way they could help others the "most" would be in identifying murderers. Since there has never been an objective study demonstrating that any crime has been solved by psychic means, then I have a lot of trouble believing in genuine mediums.

That's right. Because real mediums are morally superior beings.


Also, I'll just throw this in here:
Regarding your linked article... You've been told how many times that anticdotes aren't evidence? And let's not even get started on the appeal to authority.

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"The plan does not involve mayonaise."
"... I knew there was a catch."

You can't take the sky from me.

Your beliefs are not held by many people both on this board and who I have spoken to in the past. Most people believe that if your charging for mediumship then your probably just making it all up to make money. Its the same with the UFO subject. People will accuse you of making up things just for profit. Its the first line of attack for some people.

Anyway, as you brought up the Catholic church, I could state that even with normal churches there are ministers who appear on TV and ask for money (Billy Graham style) and those who just have thier little gathering in a small village that gather 'religiously' (pun intended) each week because of their beliefs.

Why should the Spiritualist church be any different?

Are you suggesting that the single largest religious organization on Earth is somehow abnormal, or in the minority?

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"The plan does not involve mayonaise."
"... I knew there was a catch."

You can't take the sky from me.

Well heres one for a start.

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/9368276/

What Im saying is no matter what faith a person has, there will always be somebody trying to mislead that faiths followers and charging money to do so. But that does not mean that there are people in the same faith who are genuine.

Careful...there is no need to make this personal...

The fact that a scientists was able to fool himself in an experiment conducted over a hundred years ago does not impress me.

"In it for the money" or not makes no difference to me. I'd just like to see any evidence that these "real mediums" communicate with the dead.

Found by water is a standard medium answer, and the story you linked to proves nothing...except, perhaps that there are a lot of people capable of fooling themselfs.

According to the article,""That Chiara ended up in Lake Como, and not in Venice or who knows where, was already known: it was in fact the most likely hypothesis," said Massimo Polidoro, the head of a skeptics group called the committee for the control of paranormal affirmations."

It wasn't out of the blue that Busi, the purported psychic, led rescuers to that lake. The desceased woman lived near it. The article doesn't give any details about the extent of the local police search of the lake, if there ever was one at all. It is unfortunate that the police hadn't found her, but that doesn't prove that she would have only been found with Busi's help. Perhaps the rescuers she had help her simply did a more thorough job.

Another thing in the article makes me skeptical. Busi said she wouldn't report how the woman died, and that's something she only told the mother. But wouldn't that fact come out through the following police investigation--shouldn't there be one?

This thread appears to have, once again, strayed far off topic, not only due to Moonrock's inability to provide direct answers to direct questions asked him, but also due to its having digressed into a purely religious discussion.

Answers based on objective evidence to the various questions raised would be quite refreshing.

Meanwhile, the descent into metaphysics and worse continues...

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A person's name, or a mark representing it, as signed personally or by deputy, as in subscribing a letter or other document.

Thanks, pumpkinpie for that review...You covered all the points I would have, were I not so lazy.