Chatroom
 

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Bad Astronomy and Universe Today Forum > General > Off-Topic Babbling
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

   

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #61 (permalink)  
Old 08-August-2006, 01:39 PM
Jim's Avatar
Jim Jim is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Clear Lake City, TX
Posts: 4,301
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ToSeek
That's why they're "inalienable"!
That's unalienable.

(Anyone who doesn't get the reference, rent the movie 1776.)
__________________
Never attribute to malice what can be adequately explained by ignorance or stupidity.
Isaac Asimov
Reply With Quote
  #62 (permalink)  
Old 08-August-2006, 05:46 PM
Gillianren's Avatar
Gillianren Gillianren is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Olympia, WA
Posts: 12,820
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim
(Anyone who doesn't get the reference, rent the movie 1776.)
Or check it out from your local library, as I have done. I'll probably watch it today. (Who did Jay play in that again?)
__________________
Gillian

"Now everyone was giving her that kind of look UFOlogists get when they suddenly say, 'Hey, if you shade your eyes you can see it is just a flock of geese after all.'"

"You can't erase icing."

"I can't believe it doesn't work! I found it on the internet, man!"
Reply With Quote
  #63 (permalink)  
Old 08-August-2006, 06:15 PM
sts60 sts60 is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Maryland, USA
Posts: 2,031
Default

Surprisngly, one might have found him coming out overtly for some non-Christian type of populist Gaeaist IDism.

Al Gore coming out for ID of any sort? Where in the world did you come up with that idea?

As for ID "not mentioning" God, that is simply because the ID proponents, especially the Discovery Institute, are attempting to present ID as "science" rather than an explicitly Christian (and a particular part of Christianity at that - not my part, certainly) philosophy, which it is. Almost every proponent of ID you can mention explicitly talks about God being the Designer when they are outside of courtrooms and hearings, and when they are trying to persuade the media that they are merely pushing an alternative scientific view.

They are lying through their teeth, constantly, and we can dispense with the laughable idea that the ID movement is not about based almost entirely on a particular religious viewpoint.
__________________
"Slapping a guy on the head is just as funny now as it was eighty years ago."
Reply With Quote
  #64 (permalink)  
Old 08-August-2006, 09:05 PM
Doodler's Avatar
Doodler Doodler is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Maryland
Posts: 9,464
Send a message via AIM to Doodler Send a message via MSN to Doodler
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gillianren
Not that badly. "Episcopalians" is the spelling you're looking for. It's basically the American version of Anglicanism, or advocacy of the Church of England.



I rewrote that word three times, and still transposed the vowels...
Reply With Quote
  #65 (permalink)  
Old 08-August-2006, 11:45 PM
HenrikOlsen's Avatar
HenrikOlsen HenrikOlsen is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Denmark 55.6773° N 12.3610° E
Posts: 5,262
Send a message via MSN to HenrikOlsen Send a message via Yahoo to HenrikOlsen
Default

I get a smile on my face whenever CoE is mentioned because I get this tiny pythonesque conversation running in my head.
Quote:
King: ‘I want to divorce my wife so I can marry another one, and since you're head of my religion, you should grant me a divorce.’
Pope: ‘I’m not going to do that, that’s horrible. Why don’t you just kill her and hide her head away in a cupboard, as you people normally do?’
King: ‘Right, that does it. I’m making a new religion and you can’t be in it. As a matter of fact, I’m putting myself in as head instead of you, so I can be sure it says what I want it to.’
King: ‘And while I remember “I hereby grant myself a divorce.” Come here darling, we’re getting married.’
__________________
And the "driving on the freeway on a scooter" analogy still holds true because the pilots are sitting in 7 to 30 ton aircraft o' doom and you are running around them in your very own Meatbody, Mark I. Beep, beep.
Big Don
Trying to make sense of computers, The Error Log.
Reply With Quote
  #66 (permalink)  
Old 09-August-2006, 03:10 AM
Nonkers Nonkers is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 140
Default

The common word in all US state constitutions is "God" (although not quite the most recent state Hawaii):

Alabama 1901, Preamble. We the people of the State of Alabama, invoking
the favor and guidance of Almighty God, do ordain and establish the
following Constitution.
Alaska 1956, Preamble. We, the people of Alaska, grateful to God and to
those who founded our nation and pioneered this great land.
Arizona 1911, Preamble. We, the people of the State of Arizona, grateful
to Almighty God for our liberties, do ordain this Constitution...
Arkansas 1874, Preamble. We, the people of the State of Arkansas, grateful
to Almighty God for the privilege of choosing our own form of government...
California 1879, Preamble. We, the People of the State of California,
grateful to Almighty God for our freedom.
Colorado 1876, Preamble. We, the people of Colorado, with profound
reverence for the Supreme Ruler of Universe.
Connecticut 1818, Preamble. The People of Connecticut, acknowledging with
gratitude the good Providence of God in permitting them to enjoy.
Delaware 1897, Preamble. Through Divine Goodness all men have, by nature,
the rights of worshipping and serving their Creator according to the
dictates of their consciences.
Florida 1885, Preamble. We, the people of the State of Florida, grateful
to Almighty God for our constitutional liberty, establish this Constitution...
Georgia 1777, Preamble. We, the people of Georgia, relying upon protection
and guidance of Almighty God, do ordain and establish this Constitution...
Hawaii 1959, Preamble. We, the people of Hawaii, Grateful for Divine
Guidance .. establish this Constitution.
Idaho 1889, Preamble. We, the people of the State of Idaho, grateful to
Almighty God for our freedom, to secure its blessings.
Illinois 1870, Preamble. We, the people of the State of Illinois, grateful
to Almighty God for the civil, political and religious liberty which He
hath so long permitted us to enjoy and looking to Him for a blessing on our
endeavors.
Indiana 1851, Preamble. We, the People of the State of Indiana, grateful
to Almighty God for the free exercise of the right to chose our form of
government.
Iowa 1857, Preamble. We, the People of the State of Iowa, grateful to the
Supreme Being for the blessings hitherto enjoyed, and feeling our
dependence on Him for a continuation of these blessings establish this
Constitution.
Kansas 1859, Preamble. We, the people o f Kansas, grateful to Almighty God
for our civil and religious privileges establish this Constitution.
Kentucky 1891, Preamble. We, the people of the Commonwealth are grateful
to Almighty God for the civil, political and religious liberties...
Louisiana 1921, Preamble. We, the people of the State of Louisiana,
grateful to Almighty God for the civil, political and religious liberties
we enjoy.
Maine 1820, Preamble. We the People of Maine acknowledging with grateful
hearts the goodness of_the Sovereign Ruler of the Universe in affording us
an opportunity ... and imploring His aid and direction.
Maryland 1776, Preamble. We, the people of the state of Maryland, grateful
to Almighty God for our civil and religious liberty...
Massachusetts 1780, Preamble. We...the people of Massachusetts,
acknowledging with grateful hearts, the goodness of the Great Legislator of
the Universe ... in the course of His Providence, an opportunity and
devoutly imploring His direction ..
Michigan 1908, Preamble. We, the people of the State of Michigan, grateful
to Almighty God for the blessings of freedom establish this Constitution.
Minnesota, 1857, Preamble. We, the people of the State of Minnesota,
grateful to God for our civil and religious liberty, and desiring to
perpetuate its blessings:
Mississippi 1890, Preamble. We, the people of Mississippi in convention
assembled, grateful to Almighty God, and invoking His blessing on our work.
Missouri 1845, Preamble. We, the people of Missouri, with profound
reverence for the Supreme Ruler of the Universe, and grateful for His
goodness . establish this Constitution ..
Montana 1889, Preamble. We, the people of Montana, grateful to Almighty
God for the blessings of liberty establish this Constitution ...
Nebraska 1875, Preamble. We, the people, grateful to Almighty God for our
freedom .. establish this Constitution.
Nevada 1864, Preamble. We the people of the State of Nevada, grateful to
Almighty God for our freedom establish this Constitution ...
New Hampshire 1792, Part I. Art. I. Sec. V. Every individual has a natural
and unalienable right to worship God according to the dictates of his own
conscience.
New Jersey 1844, Preamble. We, the people of the State of New Jersey,
grateful to Almighty God for civil and religious liberty which He hath so
long permitted us to enjoy, and looking to Him for a blessing on our
endeavors.
New Mexico 1911, Preamble. We, the People of New Mexico, grateful to
Almighty God for the blessings of liberty
New York 1846, Preamble . We, the people of the State of New York,
grateful to Almighty God for our freedom, in order to secure its blessings.
North Carolina 1868, Preamble . We the people of the State of North
Carolina, grateful to Almighty God, the Sovereign Ruler of Nations, for our
civil, political, and religious liberties, and acknowledging our dependence
upon Him for the continuance of those
North Dakota 1889, Preamble. We, the people of North Dakota, grateful to
Almighty God for the blessings of civil and religious liberty, do ordain...
Ohio 1852, Preamble. We the people of the state of Ohio, grateful to
Almighty God for our freedom, to secure its blessings and to promote our
common
Oklahoma 1907, Preamble. Invoking the guidance of Almighty God, in order
to secure and perpetuate the blessings of liberty ... establish this ..
Oregon 1857, Bill of Rights, Article I. Section 2 All men shall be secure
in the Natural right, to worship Almighty God according to the dictates of
their consciences..
Pennsylvania 1776, Preamble . We, the people of Pennsylvania, grateful to
Almighty God for the blessings of civil and religious liberty, and humbly
invoking His guidance
Rhode Island 1842, Preamble. We the People of the State of Rhode Island
grateful to Almighty God for the civil and religious liberty which He hath
so long permitted us to enjoy, and looking to Him for a blessing
South Carolina, 1778, Preamble. We, the people of he State of South
Carolina grateful to God for our liberties, do ordain and establish this
Constitution.
South Dakot a 1889, Preamble. We, the people of South Dakota, grateful to
Almighty God for our civil and religious liberties ...
Tennessee 1796, Art. XI.III. That all men have a natural and indefeasible
right to worship Almighty God according to the dictates of their conscience...
Texas 1845, Preamble. We the People of the Republic of Texas,
acknowledging, with gratitude, the grace and beneficence of God.
Utah 1896, Preamble. Grateful to Almighty God for life and liberty, we
establish this Constitution.
Vermont 1777, Preamble. Whereas all government ought to ... enable the
individuals who compose it to enjoy their natural rights, and other
blessings which the Author of Existence has bestowed on man ..
Virginia 1776, Bill of Rights, XVI ... Religion, or the Duty which we owe
our Creator .. can be directed only by Reason . and that it is the mutual
duty of all to practice Christian Forbearance, Love and Charity towards
each other .
Washington 1889, Preamble. We the People of the State of Washington,
grateful to the Supreme Ruler of the Universe for our liberties, do ordain
this Constitution
West Virginia 1872, Preamble. Since through Divine Providence we enjoy the
blessings of civil, political and religious liberty, we, the people of West
Virginia reaffirm our faith in and constant reliance upon God ...
Wisconsin 1848, Preamble. We, the people of Wisconsin, grateful
to Almighty God for our freedom, domestic tranquility
Wyoming 1890, Preamble. We, the people of the State of Wyoming, grateful
to God for our civil, political, and religious liberties .. establish this
Constitution.

In theory, could any legal/constitutional challenge be made, or is the US belief too abiding to warrant any change?
Reply With Quote
  #67 (permalink)  
Old 09-August-2006, 03:25 AM
Tinaa Tinaa is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Texas USA
Posts: 2,869
Default

The Texas Constitution has been amended over 400 times yet few seem to think we need to toss it out for a new one. It has been brought up on occasion in the Texas Legislature but who'd want to take on that job? A constitutional convention may be called but the changes are ultimately up to the voters.

Anyone can sue for anything here. Doesn't mean they will win though.
__________________
Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
Albert Einstein
Reply With Quote
  #68 (permalink)  
Old 09-August-2006, 04:11 AM
Gillianren's Avatar
Gillianren Gillianren is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Olympia, WA
Posts: 12,820
Default

The original California state consitution was an even-handed, balanced, well-written document, so obviously, they threw it out and wrote a new one. It forbid voting rights to "idiots, criminals, and the Chinese." Obviously, that part has been superseded by later legislation; even if one were to accept that the use of the word "God" had any sort of legal ramifications, it would be superseded by the First Amendment.
__________________
Gillian

"Now everyone was giving her that kind of look UFOlogists get when they suddenly say, 'Hey, if you shade your eyes you can see it is just a flock of geese after all.'"

"You can't erase icing."

"I can't believe it doesn't work! I found it on the internet, man!"
Reply With Quote
  #69 (permalink)  
Old 09-August-2006, 04:17 AM
Blue Fire's Avatar
Blue Fire Blue Fire is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Wyoming, NY
Posts: 445
Default

Nonkers:
Quote:
The common word in all US state constitutions is "God" (although not quite the most recent state Hawaii):
Wow, Nonkers, I had no idea. Thanks for the education! Now I'll have to check in with my lawyer nephew to get his take.
__________________
How many times have you been about to grasp the truth when somebody else suddenly yanked it out of your reach?
Reply With Quote
  #70 (permalink)  
Old 09-August-2006, 01:37 PM
Jim's Avatar
Jim Jim is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Clear Lake City, TX
Posts: 4,301
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nonkers
The common word in all US state constitutions is "God" ...
And it is not used in the US Constitution. So?
__________________
Never attribute to malice what can be adequately explained by ignorance or stupidity.
Isaac Asimov
Reply With Quote
  #71 (permalink)  
Old 09-August-2006, 02:41 PM
Wolverine's Avatar
Wolverine Wolverine is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 5,257
Send a message via MSN to Wolverine Send a message via Yahoo to Wolverine
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by HenrikOlsen
I get a smile on my face whenever CoE is mentioned because I get this tiny pythonesque conversation running in my head.
For me it's The Bishop...
Reply With Quote
  #72 (permalink)  
Old 09-August-2006, 09:54 PM
Celestial Mechanic's Avatar
Celestial Mechanic Celestial Mechanic is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Posts: 4,156
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nonkers
The common word in all US state constitutions is "God" (although not quite the most recent state Hawaii):
[Snip!]
In theory, could any legal/constitutional challenge be made, or is the US belief too abiding to warrant any change?
A fascinating list. But why get worked up over boiler-plate? It is the content of the articles from which law is derived, not the preamble. The preamble is as irrelevant in a state court of law as the Declaration of Independence is in state and federal courts.
__________________
Microsoft is over if you want it.

The bar has been lowered for the promotion of ATM ideas; the bar for the acceptance of ATM ideas must remain high.
Reply With Quote
  #73 (permalink)  
Old 10-August-2006, 06:11 AM
Maksutov's Avatar
Maksutov Maksutov is offline
Honored Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Fifth corner of the Earth
Posts: 16,731
Default Re: ID & the US Declaration of Independence

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nonkers
The common word in all US state constitutions is "God" (although not quite the most recent state Hawaii):

Alabama 1901, Preamble. We the people of the State of Alabama, invoking
the favor and guidance of Almighty God [edit] Wyoming 1890, Preamble. We, the people of the State of Wyoming, grateful
to God for our civil, political, and religious liberties .. establish this
Constitution.

In theory, could any legal/constitutional challenge be made, or is the US belief too abiding to warrant any change?
Actually the most common word is "the", therefore most folks have actually been barking up the wrong tree.
__________________
A person's name, or a mark representing it, as signed personally or by deputy, as in subscribing a letter or other document.
Reply With Quote
  #74 (permalink)  
Old 10-August-2006, 09:22 AM
Tobin Dax's Avatar
Tobin Dax Tobin Dax is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Middle of Nowhere, Kentucky
Posts: 2,621
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maksutov
Actually the most common word is "the", therefore most folks have actually been barking up the wrong tree.
Darn it, I was just about to get snarky and say something like that myself. (Especially since Nonkers said "[t]he common word.")

P.S. Happy belated birthday, Mak.
Reply With Quote
  #75 (permalink)  
Old 11-August-2006, 01:46 AM
Lurker Lurker is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Cupertino CA
Posts: 2,561
Send a message via AIM to Lurker Send a message via MSN to Lurker Send a message via Yahoo to Lurker
Default

The constitutions you site were written quite sometime ago, however, governmental instutions in our republic evolve over time. The founding fathers would not recognize the government we have estabilshed from our interpretation of the document they wrote.
Reply With Quote
  #76 (permalink)  
Old 11-August-2006, 05:20 PM
hhEb09'1's Avatar
hhEb09'1 hhEb09'1 is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: NC USA
Posts: 8,269
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tobin Dax View Post
Darn it, I was just about to get snarky and say something like that myself. (Especially since Nonkers said "[t]he common word.")
Why especially? In ordinary english, that doesn't necessarily mean "the most common", it just means the most often used word in this context, right?
Reply With Quote
  #77 (permalink)  
Old 12-August-2006, 01:46 AM
Blue Fire's Avatar
Blue Fire Blue Fire is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Wyoming, NY
Posts: 445
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hhEb09'1 View Post
Why especially? In ordinary english, that doesn't necessarily mean "the most common", it just means the most often used word in this context, right?
Personally, for all us literalists out here, I'd rather call into question Tobin Dax's use of the word "snarky." It aint in My dictionary!
__________________
How many times have you been about to grasp the truth when somebody else suddenly yanked it out of your reach?
Reply With Quote
  #78 (permalink)  
Old 12-August-2006, 04:02 AM
01101001's Avatar
01101001 01101001 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 11,463
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue Fire View Post
Personally, for all us literalists out here, I'd rather call into question Tobin Dax's use of the word "snarky." It aint in My dictionary!
It's in mine. Google "define: snarky":
Quote:
A colloquialism meaning short-tempered or snappish.
http://www.careerjournaleurope.com/c.../glossary.html
More?

Answers.com
Merriam-Webster Online
Urban Dictionary
__________________
0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 ...
Reply With Quote