Off-camber banking, quite ridiculous. Anybody know a good reason to intentionally do that?

We had one near us when I was learning to drive. The banking was minor, and the radius was considerably larger than the average freeway ramp, but it still felt very different - and odd. My drivers ed instructor made everyone negotiate it at some point in their training.

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Don of Borg - Cool, Calm, Collective.

"Within the next generation I believe that the world's leaders will discover that infant conditioning and narco-hypnosis are more efficient, as instruments of government, than clubs and prisons, and that the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

I was hoping that someone would find that list (that way I wouldn't have to ). I did recall that two of the intersections were about a mile apart from each other in Philadelphia. Fortunately I don't have to drive that road too often. A few years ago, I saw a network news program about this list. The other cities in the list were very interested in getting their intersections off of the list by modifying the intersection, but not Philadelphia. Some city official simply said there wouldn't be any problem if everyone drove carefully, refusing to acknowledge that there were design flaws at those intersections. While bad drivers are a big part of it, the real problem is that there are too many lanes and too much traffic with 8 lanes and 3 traffic islands going north-south and 4 lanes east-west, with almost everyone hitting the gas when they see the yellow light. Finally, about 6 months ago, the city installed cameras to discourage people from running yellow lights. I'm not sure if that helped, but it sure can't hurt.

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True is the question
Derived from the Shakespeare Postulate (2b)|| !(2b)

As an engineer tech working in a firm that does highway design (among other things), I can tell you that there is no situation in which such a banked curve is considered safe or even "practically negotiable". It's just a bad idea all the way around. They don't have a 'natural' feel, and they increase the sense of slowly sliding out of control, even when you're not. Plus, they're simply less safe -- you get far less traction this way.

Keep in mind that just like in many other disciplines, there was a period in highway design/construction in which much less oversight existed than what is around today. Many 'cavalier' type engineers just did what they wanted, and over time their poor designs get revisited and reworked (dependent on funding of course). Now nothing gets built without approval from some government entity. That also means that nothing gets redesigned without approval either.

There have also been situations where the engineer wasn't permitted to make the call. Funding being what it is these days, sometimes you do what you can afford to do, and just compromise the design until you can meet budgeting goals. Sometimes the contractor has to foot the bill -- in which case things usually get done the cheapest way possible. So it's not always the fault of the designer or engineer -- just as frequently these bad interchanges, ramps, and intersections are the fault of the bureaucracy or constructor.

weatherc mentioned I-287, and that reminded me of US 287 in WY/CO. One time I watched a news program about the top ten most deadly roads in the US. Knowing that segment of 287--narrow no-shoulder two-lane connecting two university towns an hour apart, 7000 feet above sea level with incredible winds and storms, with different, and shifting, age limits on alcohol--I figured it'd be high on the list. I was a little surprised to see it come up early as they counted down.

But it came up in the list again, they'd divided it into two statistical segments, the Colorado part, and the Wyoming part.

It's not a freeway interchange, but Seven Corners just outside of Arlington VA takes the cake as one of the most confusing. (you may need to zoom in on the Google map). Two main roads cross there (Rt 50 and Rt 7), and three others (Wilson, Hillwood, and Sleepy Hollow)branch off from the intersection leading to exactly, you guessed it, seven corners. I've lived in the area almost 20 years and I still need to concentrate on which lane to be in to get to where I want to go.

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"I often say that when you can measure what you are speaking about, and express it in numbers, you know something about it; but when you cannot measure it, when you cannot express it in numbers, your knowledge is of a meagre and unsatisfactory kind." - William Thompson, 1st Baron Lord Kelvin

"If it was so, it might be, and if it were so, it would be, but as it isn't, it ain't. That's logic!" - Tweedledee

This isn't right. This isn't even wrong. - Wolfgang Pauli

My worst intersection is the road T which I pass every day while bicycling to work. I've had about a dozen near-misses over the summer, and on Tuesday, I had another near-miss, three times with the same vehicle! The first was when she pulled out in front of me (against a stop sign). The second was when she pulled so far to the right that I couldn't go around her to the right. The third was when she cut to the left to pull into a parking space (without signalling) just after I'd cut to the left. As a result, she cut me off a third time and as I hit the slick, wet curb to avoid doing triple summersaults over the front of her vehicle, my bike spilled out from under me, and I and the bike slid under the back end of a parked car.

The Polizei cited her and want me to request prosecution, but I'm tempted to let the traffic fines (failure to yield right of way and failing to signal a turn - about 100 Euro) and repair fees for my bike and protecting clothing (about 120 Euro) suffice.

What say you?

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I am Mugs, of the Alien clan of Usa, Nordamerica, a Terran, of Sol. A human.

Whoever says "perception is reality" is daft. It's merely an abstraction, and often not a very good one.

I second the OP.....Connecticut was, IMHO, and maybe still is, the creator of the worst roads in the US, but I am sure that a case can be made for Mass and Joisey too....I 95 from Greenwich to New Haven, especially from Fairfield to Bridgeport......I was glad I worked on the RR and got to ride for free, and watch the traffic not move......

Dale in Ala

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"Ad astra per aspera"

On the Capital Beltway (I-495 around DC) for years, there was a left exit from I-66 in Virginia to the Beltway north. There were accidents from people moving to the left at the last minute. So the left exit was converted into the more common right exit. Now suddenly there were accidents from people used to having the left exit! Finally, they opened both a left and right exit.

As for off-camber turns--there is one near Annapolis that gets trucks sometimes. It was decided it was too expensive to fix, so a "slow down" sign was put up instead.

Todd

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Todd (Bowie, MD, US, North America, Earth, Sol System, Vega region, Local Bubble, Orion arm, Milky Way Galaxy, Local Group, Virgo A Cluster, Virgo supercluster, the universe in which spock is clean shaven)

Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum sonatur.

personal page: http://blog.astrosketches.info

Not really a worst intersection, but there's a T-junction out where my parents-in-law used to live that was a typical British one lane road running into a slightly wider one lane road. Across from the end of the first road was an earthen bank--each time we went to visit, there were the parts of a different car embedded in the bank.....

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"Light thinks it travels faster than anything but it is wrong. No matter how fast light travels it finds the darkness has always got there first, and is waiting for it." — Terry Pratchett, Reaper Man

441!!!! :)

Oh man, I've been there...scares the tar outta me! Rotaries in general strike me as very dangerous, and they are quite popular here in Mass.

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An open mind is like an open window...without a good screen you'll get all sorts of weird bugs!

Off topic...when I read the title of this thread, the intersection pictured came to mind...(taken a few weeks ago while on vacation)