The body of the message may need to spell out what each class would entail a little more. We might want to start coming up with a very high level overview of what each class might cover.

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I was just sitting here contemplating the immortal words of Socrates who said, "I drank what?"

"Think of the rivers of blood spilled by all those generals and emperors so that, in glory and triumph, they could become the momentary masters of a fraction of a dot." --Carl Sagan "Pale Blue Dot"

That would be nice and would help attract more interest in the class. However, who will do it and does it need to be done for all four classes at this time? We might want to wait a bit for this. IMO, antoniseb needs more of our heavy hitters to step up to the plate and offer assistance if we are to write a textbook from scratch. This will especially true if the higher level courses are desired.

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Lighten up! This is a stellar board! Author: duh.

"The Sun, with all the planets revolving around it, and depending on it, can still ripen a bunch of grapes as though it had nothing else in the universe to do..." Author: Galileo supposedly.

In terms of structure, does anyone have experience with Moodle? If so, I think that would be close to ideal, for this project - it can easily incorporate just about every suggestion made so far in this thread.

If we were to choose that as the learning management system (LMS), I see the burden as falling to two places, principally: on Fraser (or the administrator), and on those who would be the instructors (largely because they would need to get up to speed with how Moodle works).

If we aimed at a certificate course (of some kind), then there'd be an additional burden ... on whoever runs to ground the certificate requirements (and implements them; not trivial I suspect).

For myself, I'm conflicted; I love the idea, and would love to be an instructor I have lots of ideas (though only some would be good ones), both on content and structure. However, the thought of the amount of time required scares me, so I've held off even posting to this thread ...

This is the first I've seen of it, but it looks worth exploring.

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Forming opinions as we speak

I think this is the greatest risk of this entire undertaking. When it comes to projects like this, I highly recommend taking tiny steps. Layer content on like an onion improving things as you go.

Is there one specific topic, that could give people the most value? Maybe just do a mini course on that. Afterwards, judge the effort, people's enthusiasm, and then rinse repeat.

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Fraser Cain
Publisher
Universe Today - Free space news delivered by email every weekday.

I was imagining each textbook chapter as a mini-course. Originally, I visualized it as a thread per course, starting with a post linking to a web-page, and a set of homework assignments. The thread was open for Q&A and help on specific homework questions.

This is much trimmed down from what an actual web-based training effort is. I do those professionally, and don't have the time it would take to do it here.

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Forming opinions as we speak

Could possibly set up something like "an Introduction to Astronomy" course for the dual purpose of getting those of us on here with little or no astronomy background up to speed, and testing out the process nessesary for future classes. Wouldn't have to be too big or complicated, just something to try out a format(s).

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I'm like one of those idiot savants...well, except for the savant part.

"A long time ago, yet somehow in the future"

It seems the goal is still to build a course, essentially, from scratch. Obviously, the work load is now the big issue. What ways can this get accomplished?

That sounds logical. Would a dedicated and locked thread work for each chapter in lieu of a separate web page? Other chapter threads could serve for discussion purposes.

Perhaps it is just my excitement about this class that makes me ask if we could not elicit students to write much of the text themselves, where two or more instructors will edit and augment their work for any given chapter? Other students and instructors could be working on subsequent chapters at the same time.

Using the ideas from others above, suppose you had 20 subtopics in a chapter. If the instructors posted all 20 then students, could select the ones they wanted and the instructors could assign them. Any subtopic without a volunteer(s) would be given to an instructor or given to class "consultants" [ ]. I am confident there will be several highly qualified participants that will pitch-in with this effort but are, due to work loads, not able to commit to being an instructor. [Added: Hopefully, two students would work together on a couple of subtopics to help minimize editing by an instructor, as well as, improve on the content itself.]

This plan, or another of your choice, could be implemented and the material reviewed to see how well the plan is working. I would assume the first chapter would need completed and the second chapter at least half completed before setting the offical class start date. If there are hiccups or unfair burdens on individuals in the plan, then we simply revise and postpone the [announcement of the] official class start.

[Added: Assuming a dozen chapters, that would equate to about 300 to 400 pages for a textbook, which seems about right.]

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Lighten up! This is a stellar board! Author: duh.

"The Sun, with all the planets revolving around it, and depending on it, can still ripen a bunch of grapes as though it had nothing else in the universe to do..." Author: Galileo supposedly.

This is what I thought at first and once everyone has basic understanding we could move if there was enough interest.

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If it's just us, it seems like an awful waste of space.
Contact Carl Sagan

I like this idea of a mini-course as a test. Maybe we could pick a topic for it. Maybe something that has been discussed around here, like the nuclear physics of the sun, or the structures of the planets in the solar system (rocky bodies, gas giants, etc.)?

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At night the stars put on a show for free (Carole King)

Wow, this is a really fascinating idea! I can't read this thread in detail right now, but I will, and think on this some too. I'll do whatever I can to help.

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Phil Plait
The Bad Astronomer
http://www.badastronomy.com
badastro@badastronomy.com

Great to hear it, BA. All experienced teachers are sure needed to help formulate a fruitful plan, especially if we greatly contribute to the Wiki Books program.

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Lighten up! This is a stellar board! Author: duh.

"The Sun, with all the planets revolving around it, and depending on it, can still ripen a bunch of grapes as though it had nothing else in the universe to do..." Author: Galileo supposedly.

An instructor has to know what the students know and what they need to know. I have taken a couple courses on how to set up a curriculum. Heck , I've I had to make up a whole year of lesson plans when we received a new software program this year.

What need are we trying to fill? Who is the target audience? What outcomes are we seeking? What are the course objectives? Will the homework include lab (actually going outside and looking or text based?) What skills must be learned before instruction begins?
Are there going to be any prerequisites? Will there be criterion tests? An instructor needs tests and much as the student to see if the instruction is working!

An introductory "tryout" course is an excellent idea. That would help the instructor and students decide if the course is worthy of the time and effort that will be involved. That will also help decide what changes need to be implemented so that the course works better.

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Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
Albert Einstein

All good points, Tinna.

I suspect at this point we are still throwing things on the table to see what looks good. We don't have a large team of instructors ready to write textbooks to accommodate all the student desires for a great class. We also don't have a handle on how many students are interested nor at what level class they want. As my friend Dave says, "if we had some ham, we could have some ham and eggs, if we had some eggs". So there is a little bit of a Catch 22 here, but not enough to stall the initial wavefront.

It should be apparent that we do have at least some students enthusiastic about taking a class; likely enough in number to make up at least one freshman or sophomore college level class without much promotion.

My hope is the potential benefits of using BAUT - with its communication functionality and remarkably educated membership, not to mention some of its colorfully entertaining contributors - will be recognized and mentioned here in this thread.

I would love to see some lofty goals presented, too. Fraser introduced a big one with working toward building the Wiki Books Astronomy textbook. I like that idea. Whatever they may be, if we define our eventual goals then we can layout a plan and see who will commit to the task and who will serve as backup to their work. Perhaps this effort could be tested by preparing one or two chapters in advance of announcing any official class start date to see what happens, or the mini-course idea might be a better alternative.

Dreamer that I am, here is what this student wants....
I want to take numerous serious courses in Astronomy.
I want the course to be filled with the latest images, illustrations and animations.
I want the courses to be on the internet for convenience and time flexibility as I don't have the time to take them in college (night or day) (I'm paying for two of our kids that are enrolled now!).
[Guess the next one] Money is a problem, so a free class, or ~ $100 is the limit.
I want to reach a level that would allow me credit on as many hours as possible should I elect to go after a degree in astronomy (even though, with a degree, I would not likely work professionally, but might serve in some assistance capacity).
Therefore, I want a prominent university to allow me to take advance placement tests, knowing most of my hours from my prior degree will apply to the other course requirements.
I want to complete a course here that I can be proud of surviving. [Though a less rigorous course would be admirable, too.]
I want a cool looking BAUT certificate for completing each rigorous course; the tougher the course, the better the certificate (sheep still have skin, right? )
I wanta take my knowledge and go to the ATM forum and present ideas where I know what I'm talking about (in lieu of just presenting ideas that clearly reveal otherwise. )
I wanta know why a pure Doppler model isn't offered to explain expansion, why light seems stubborn with entropy, why we can't increase surface brightness, where models are strong and where they might be weak, how our solar system formed, and the merits to claims of scientific concordance. I wanta know what's out there, how big it is, and what the future holds. I want to boldly go beyond having to quote Star Trek lines. I want to be a part of a collective effort that produces something significant and grander than anything done here before. [Oh, and I wanta know the color of the sun. .]

That’s all I want for Christmas.

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Lighten up! This is a stellar board! Author: duh.

"The Sun, with all the planets revolving around it, and depending on it, can still ripen a bunch of grapes as though it had nothing else in the universe to do..." Author: Galileo supposedly.

this type of course would give me a good idea of how much time I have to devote to such a study. my job takes me out of town for several days at a time during the week and only at one place other than at home will I have internet access.(a hotel that offers two computers for guest use.)

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"Man has always found it easier to sacrifice his life than learn the multiplication table." - Somerset Maugham

Bah! I'm excited about this thing. I love to learn (and if you've read any of my posts, you know i've got a lot of room for improvement hehe). But there's only been like one post every couple of days recently. Don't let this die out! I'm willing to lend any help i can and it looks like we got plenty that feel the same way. So now I think we need to get the leaders together and start devising a good plan. I still back the idea of a smaller test course, and i'm still gonna give my vote to basic astronomy 'caus...well, i really need the foundation anyway, hope this thing materializes. go BAUT!

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I'm like one of those idiot savants...well, except for the savant part.

"A long time ago, yet somehow in the future"

It won't die. It needs more consideration by folks like the BA, Fraser, and other teachers. This could be a small paradigm moment and could prove to be quite effective because of the somewhat unique circumstances inherent here.

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Lighten up! This is a stellar board! Author: duh.

"The Sun, with all the planets revolving around it, and depending on it, can still ripen a bunch of grapes as though it had nothing else in the universe to do..." Author: Galileo supposedly.

Here is another website that is an online based astronomy course. It will give us an idea on how to set up our own system.

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I was just sitting here contemplating the immortal words of Socrates who said, "I drank what?"

"Think of the rivers of blood spilled by all those generals and emperors so that, in glory and triumph, they could become the momentary masters of a fraction of a dot." --Carl Sagan "Pale Blue Dot"

It is nice to see that someone has done something like this. However, it is as basic as it gets as per his own intention...