I'll keep an eye on the course guidelines as you're working, and make sure we record Astronomy Cast episodes that can support what you're doing.

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Fraser Cain
Publisher
Universe Today - Free space news delivered by email every weekday.

That sounds like a good idea.

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Forming opinions as we speak

What is the program Fraser will be keeping an eye on?

I'm just throwing out ideas. Is the outline approach ok? Can we not improve upon those sections and titles? If not, I don't mind writing a section or two to stir activity, but it would be nice to get more input to help establish the necessary course goals and criteria.

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Lighten up! This is a stellar board!

I just had a thought. What if the unit/lesson instructor records their lesson as a podcast? All they would need is some basic recording software (eg: Audacity is incredibly simple, and freeware, I use it for my own weekly podcast) and maybe if we went that route Fraser could host the .mp3 on his libsyn.com account and link to it here.

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I was just sitting here contemplating the immortal words of Socrates who said, "I drank what?"

"Think of the rivers of blood spilled by all those generals and emperors so that, in glory and triumph, they could become the momentary masters of a fraction of a dot." --Carl Sagan "Pale Blue Dot"

[Edit: WARNING: Reading the following long post can be hazardous to your health!
I have arrived at this conclusion due to the lack of any, critical or just colorful, responses. Those who have read this have either been killed dead or are writhing in pain so much as to lack the ability to warn you - the next victim. So I feel morally bound to warn you since I am, of course, imune to its loathsome venom. ]

Just for grins, I offer this little bit as a taste for our schooling appetite. It is meant to be a little different, especially since this is for an introductory course. There are links that are needed, but I would like your opinion first before even considering it as a course direction option. If you do like it, then I will complete this chapter on our planet, then offer it in the Astronomy forum for the full polish treatment from the local Ozonians before going to see the wizard and get this a goin’.

ok, roll 'em...


You and Your Planet: [We have to get a better title than this. Help.]
.....Our Atmosphere:

Ah, here you are! We’ve been waiting for you to come aboard. Please secure the hatch behind you as we can afford no air leak once in space. Because of your vast experience with XBOX simulations, we’ve elected you to be the pilot. Don’t be nervous and, yes, your controls will be XBOX standards. I’ll be your navigator and guide. So, take the pilot seat, now turn that key, push back the switch rocker cover, lift up on the toggle, ignore the alarm, and throw the switch. We’re off!

Ain’t it a beautiful day to be climbing up through the atmosphere? We’ve just left the lower layer of our atmosphere, the troposphere, and are now in the stratosphere. Level out here for a bit so I can tell you some stuff. There are some important events happening up here.

In 350 BC, Aristotle wrote a book entitled Meteorology. Meteorology, then and today, deals with atmospheric phenomena, so weathermen aren't necessarily meteor experts afterall. Aristotle held that there were five elements that made up the universe – earth, water, air, fire, and the aether. He reasoned that each element had its place and because they are attracted toward a center, then a spherical Earth had to be the consequence. He supported this idea with two observations: the Earth’s shadow cast onto the moon during a lunar eclipse is round every time, and that the stars appear to move southward as a traveler moves northward. As you look out at the horizon notice the curvature of the earth. Yep, it’s a sphere; those that think otherwise, well their thinking is not…well rounded. Oh, you like puns? That is good. I’ll keep them to a minimum as some consider them punishment.

[ppg added] Since it is so late in the afternoon, turn to the west for a moment. Thanks. Do you notice that pinkish color running north and south? It is just above that darker region, isn't it? Yep. That darker region is the shadow of the Earth as it goes through the atmosphere and beyond. Notice, too, that it exhibits curvature because our planet is round. This phenomenon is known as the Belt of Venus and all that you see here is visible from the ground, though from a mountain top the curvature is more obvious. Huh? You want to know why they call it the Belt of Venus when Venus has nothing to do with it? Hey, what do you think this is - a dialogue?

Our atmosphere has changed in composition since its original days, billions of years ago. It is believed the Earth’s early atmosphere was mainly carbon dioxide and carbon monoxide – volcanoes contributing greatly to this - as much of the other molecules were broken apart by sunlight. Today our atmosphere consists mainly of nitrogen (78%) and oxygen (21%). Would you believe argon is the next element at about 1%? Carbon dioxide is less than 0.05%.

Here in the stratosphere, oxygen plays an important role on our environment. Not only do we have to breathe it to survive, but it also protects us from the higher energy rays from the sun. When oxygen atoms collide, they can combine to form molecular oxygen. Diatomic is the term used when two atoms form. When three oxygen atoms combine it is known as ozone, which, no doubt, you’ve heard about. Oxygen is constantly combining with each other but, in the stratosphere, the sunlight is causing them to break apart, a process called photodecomposition. Below 30km altitude, however, the greater atmospheric density allows molecular oxygen to survive much longer. It is both the diatomic oxygen and ozone that protect us from the sun’s harmful ultraviolet radiation which is known to cause skin cancer and other problems. This has become a bigger issue in recent years because there is evidence showing there is an ozone depletion process happening for reasons not completely understood, though aerosols and other human contributions are likely culprits.

Of the three commonly known divisions of ultraviolet light, UVA, UVB, UVC, molecular oxygen protects us from the latter two which are the more dangerous. UVA is light that is a little more energetic than violet light. This light easily penetrates our atmosphere and our skin but does not do much damage. Diatomic oxygen is the one most helpful in stopping the worst – UVC. However, the sun produces more of the UVB light than the UVC and it is the ozone we rely on most to prevent UVB from reaching the surface. This is why so much interest is in monitoring it and figuring out ways to prevent its depletion.

I know you’re ready to climb into outer space in order to feel untethered by gravity’s grip, but there is one more thing of interest here in the atmosphere – color. Yep, this ain’t no black and white adventure; color we are blessed to see and colorful we be. Notice how the blue sky has become a deeper and richer blue. This color is light that has been affected also by atoms and molecules, mainly nitrogen and oxygen, in the atmosphere. However, in this case they are light rays, or photons if you like, that are being zinged, or scattered, into all directions. Lord Rayleigh, following John Tyndall’s work, was able to show that the higher energy rays (i.e. blue) from the sun would scatter much more than the lower energy rays (e.g. red). This means the sky looks blue because we see more of the scattered blue rays than the other, less energetic, ones. This produces the net result of the blue color.

This color aspect of light I mention to you because nearly all that is known about astronomy has come from the information astronomers have gleaned for light itself. Up until relatively recent history, only the light visible to our eye was useful to us. However, modern astronomy takes full advantage of nearly the entire range of light, from gamma rays to radio waves. As a result, we have a lot of cool places to travel.

Go ahead and nose up toward space. Notice how the temperature outside is getting warmer. Of course, as we are now entering the mesosphere, the temperature will begin to decrease with altitude. We are now higher than aircraft can go but lower than spacecraft can travel. As a result, it is often ignored and has even been called the ignorosphere by certain, more colorful, scientists. Who knew scientists could be humorous? You did? Oh, you have lurked on bautforum.com, no wonder you know scientists have a great sense of humor. I think they are both quite comical.

It is here in the mesosphere where most incoming meteors burn-up. They enter by the millions every day but their high speed encounter with this denser region creates enormous frictional heat that vaporizes them.

Speaking of high speed, we need to crank up the engines enough to get us eventually up to a speed around 17,500 mph (7.8 km/sec). At this speed we can coast around the Earth with an altitude of around 200 km without the need for engines. But we’re not there yet.

We are now entering the thermosphere where, once again, the temperature will climb as we climb, too. In fact, the temperatures here can reach 2000 deg. C. due to the sun’s radiation upon these molecules. No wonder it's called the thermosphere.

Great, we have arrived and can look down on the Earth as we talk about our planet. Some have said that spacecraft escape gravity, but this is incorrect. We are constantly falling toward Earth but we are going so fast that we fall only into more space and never actually to Earth. Of course, if we slow down, then down we go.

[Added: Meteorology sentences]

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Lighten up! This is a stellar board!

Gaaaaahhhh!

O, sorry. I didn't mean to distrub this slumbering thread. But, due to the diligence of new member Sleepy_Sentry and old friend 01101001, I've been able to locate the Introduction to Astronomy course of the MIT OpenCourseWare offerings (buried deep within the physics hierarchy). HTH

Ah, there is hope, finally.

Gee, it was oddly placed.

I downloaded it and found many folders. The internet link icon in the home folder failed. I went straight down with the first folder of each subsequent window and the last window was the final exam link. It looks tough.

Assuming I can figure out how I can get each lesson going, it would suit me fine. However, this does not look like an introductory level course I would expect to find here. Based on the quizes I found, this looks like some tough introductory level course from someplace like MIT. No surprise, it is from MIT.

I would vote for an easier introductory course. However, if no other course is found or written, then this student would enjoy engaging this program assuming other Bauters are along for the ride.

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Lighten up! This is a stellar board!

Whoops, sorry. I forgot this thread.

The Atmosphere post is very nice, I think It can be the first chapter of the Course. The info is great. I really appreciate it. I'll contribute whatever I can.

I think we can put a small multiple choice quiz after each chapter, so that the students can immediately test whatever they've learnt. A multiple choice for The Atmosphere can be :

What did Aristotle base his spherical earth theory on?
1. The phases of the moon.
2. The stars looking brighter as we go to higher latitudes.
3. Stars appear to move southward as a traveller moves north.
4. The expeditions to faraway places.

What is photodecomposition?
1. Sunlight causing ozone to break apart.
2. The process of sonversion of sunlight into plant food.
3. Combining of three oxygen atoms in sunlight.

What does the sun produce the most?
1. UVA, which ozone stops
2. UVB, which ozone stops
3. UVC, which oxygen stops
4. UVB, which oxygen stops.

Where do most incoming meteors burn up?
1. Mesophere
2. Stratosphere
3. Ozone layer
4. The ground.

You see a ship coming from the horizon. It's mast appears first, then the sails, then the hull. What would you conclude?
1. The earth is round, since the horizon is not in the same plane.
2. The ship is resurfacing from the water.
3. The sea level is higher at the shore.

This will just be a quiz at the end of a lesson, we can conduct larger and more subjective exams later. Such a small quiz may make students confident they've learnt something.

One more thing I noticed: The lack of numbers or equations. This diagram about the oxygen ozone cycle is good, btw.

Maybe, for the mathematically minded, we can include a small section at the end of every lesson, which may contain a mathematical explanation of the main content. Here, it's not necessary, since we can include escape veolicity and orbits in the chapter on gravity. Maybe we can mention the formula for Rayleigh scattering here. (the 1/(omega)⁴ ).

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Limericks, written by me: http://limericker.blogspot.com

That's the spirit, and thanks for the input. It is only a sample of a possible style we might employ for an introductory course. Besides, it is more meteorology than astronomy. I just imagined getting in a spaceship and headin' out. I was mindful of Sagan's voyage once I got strapped in the seat next to the kid pilot.

Remmember, I come more as a student than a teacher. My lack of knowledge and limited mastery of grammar gives me quick cause to limit my authorship, though it would be fun to assist.

Yes, that seems to be the plan, though there may be a way to enter the answers and get graded automaticially. The goal would be an actual certificate for each course.

Yes. Fraser's suggestion is to support Wiki Books, so we would use Wiki links throughout the text. I left most of them out to speed up the chapter style demonstration.

Maybe we could offer a bonus section via various links throughout the chapter that would get the math wheels turning. It would keep the text looking simpler and cleaner. There may be other tools besides math that can be created and made as linked pages. Graphs, tables, asterisms, enlargements for thumbnails.

Before we can go far, we need more input from others in how to do a course BAUT can be proud of.

hhEb09'1 has presented a very classy introductory course. What do you think of it?

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Lighten up! This is a stellar board!

The MIT course is a bit too advanced... the lecture notes show that. We are looking for something on a lower level, I think.

The wikibooks idea is nice, but the forum could have a section for the course, where the instructors post, students interact, etc. Then the course could be put on wikibooks.

Let the ideas keep coming. I hope other BAUTers show up in this thread. Please speak up!

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Limericks, written by me: http://limericker.blogspot.com

I teach several courses at RIT, both at the introductory, survey level, and at a more advanced level for students who have taken a couple of years of physics and math. All my course material is already available freely. The astronomy courses are

(intro level) Stellar Astronomy
http://spiff.rit.edu/classes/phys230/phys230.html

(intro level) Extragalactic Astronomy (a bit out of date, alas)
http://spiff.rit.edu/classes/phys240/phys240.html

(a bit more math) Astronomy for science majors
http://spiff.rit.edu/classes/phys301/phys301.html

(lots and lots of math and calculus) Stellar Astrophysics
http://spiff.rit.edu/classes/phys440/phys440.html

Observational Astronomy
http://spiff.rit.edu/classes/phys445/syllabus.html

People are welcome to use bits and pieces, as long as they honor the Creative Commons License.

Enjoy!

Michael Richmond

Wow! Very nice. I would think this would be a great way to get started.

Assuming no commerical use, can we add to it, if desired, and present it without copyright issues?

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Lighten up! This is a stellar board!

I think the license is clear enough... I like it.

George, we can use these courses... they seem very good to me...

Thanks Mr. Richmond.

I hope other BAUTers join in the enthusiasm... George and I aren't by any means teachers... we're students.

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Limericks, written by me: http://limericker.blogspot.com

As the license states, you are free to share the material and modify it, as long as

a) you provide attribution (i.e. state that some/all of the material
was written by me)

b) don't charge for it

c) make it available to others under the same conditions

The full details can be read at the Creative Commons License page.

Michael

Thanks again Michael, I think you may have gotten us over the lethargic hump.

I would encourage others to look your course over. [I am rushed and may be out for a week or so.]

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Lighten up! This is a stellar board!

I am one of the BAUTers that is in the 'beginner who wants to learn' category. I was so happy when I found this forum because of the information available. I would love to be part of the Astronomy Class.

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Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend.
Inside of a dog it's too dark to read.
- Groucho Marx

Same here... my interest is in optics (learing how to properly use them), and interpreting data, specifically, visual interpretations.

Of course I know this would be basic astronomy, and I would definitley love to be a part of it! Don't be surprised if I ask, "what color would that gas be?"

Thanks, C18H27NO3 and Leda117. But if we don't get some teachers we can't start the course. After all, me and George are just students too. I'm sure we'll all have a great time once we get some teachers who'll conduct the course.

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Limericks, written by me: http://limericker.blogspot.com

This MIT course is a bit easier, more focused on observation.

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-----
Todd (Bowie, MD, US, North America, Earth, Sol System, Vega region, Local Bubble, Orion arm, Milky Way Galaxy, Local Group, Virgo A Cluster, Virgo supercluster, the universe in which spock is clean shaven)

Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum sonatur.

personal page: http://blog.astrosketches.info

That seems great. Thanks for the link, tdvance.

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Limericks, written by me: http://limericker.blogspot.com

Here's another one: The Solar System:

Hmmmm, I downloaded and extracted but can't seem to make a course of it. The click on the Welcome icon got me back to their course homepage, but I found slim pickings thereafter.

I cliked on the download option and found... "The Zip download URL for this course is not available in the course archive."

Hopefully, it is me that needs help, and not the course itself.

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Lighten up! This is a stellar board!

Why do you need teachers?

Suppose you were to find a structured set of knowledge -- say, a good textbook, or the webpage of a course (hint, hint). You could assign yourselves the task of reading some portion of the material during some period of time -- say, one chapter a week. At the end of that period, if you had questions, you could post them to BAUT in a special forum. Other people reading the same material might have similar questions on the same topics, so your question would probably be of interest to a number of people. An expert answers the problem, a short dialogue ensues, and voila! Understanding.

Go for it. Maybe ask the BAUT admins for a special forum section.

Since this is not a rush project [/sarcasm] and open to new ideas....

What if some dynamic astronomer with public speaking skills were to conduct a series of videos on astronomy? He (to further the ever so subtle hint) could put them on YouTube. hehe

In conjuction, to broaden the range of topics necessary for a course, what if we included some audio pod casts. Imagine some dynamic duo with wonderful voices presenting astronomy topics for study, as well as, general enjoyment and edification. Forgive my bias, but I favor a lady astronomer answering a respected host.

Someone could produce a concatenation of the links to these presentations, thus the course would be utilizing the efficacy of the internet.

Tests could be given, of course, to earn the coveted (inevitably) BAUT certificate.

Just some wild thinking. Any adminstrators monitoring this thread? hehe

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Lighten up! This is a stellar board!

good suggestions. Sigh, is no one monitoring this thread?

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Limericks, written by me: http://limericker.blogspot.com

Well, it's a sticky issue.

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Lighten up! This is a stellar board!

I'm somewhat troubled by your suggestions.

First, are you aware that such videos already exist? For example, Alex Filippenko, who teaches at UC Berkeley, has filmed several of his courses. The videtapes can be purchased from The Teaching Company. You can also watch video of his lectures for free from a streaming site at UC Berkeley:

http://webcast.berkeley.edu/course_d...sid=1906978237

Alex is a very, very dynamic and effective lecturer. I should know; he was my graduate advisor.

It seems to me that your question above could be interpreted as asking someone to place copies of this material on YouTube. I hope that isn't what you meant. There's no need for it -- people who want to watch these lectures already have the opportunity to do so.

If you are suggesting that someone who is currently teaching astronomy courses at some university videotape them and then put the videos on a web site ... are you aware of the effort it takes to produce a video with decent quality? One needs special lighting and microphones that aren't available in most classrooms. One must be able to catch the audio of students asking questions from any seat in the room. It requires at least one, if not two, extra people present during each lecture to run the camera and audio equipment. It also means that the lecturer must work out in advance materials, and examples, and movements on the stage, that will all fall within the field of view of the cameras. It would be an enormous amount of work!

As for the audio records, they would take much less work. But, again, such materials already exist. You can go to NPR's web site, for example, and search for podcasts on scientific subjects; there will be astronomical items in the list. Have you listened to all of those?

You mention tests. Why? If your goal is to educate yourself, how would a test help? I guess that some people might not push themselves to read or watch or listen to all the material if they weren't being rewarded in some way ... hmmm. Think of the practical aspects -- how would such a test be administered? Would someone mail you an envelope with the test paper inside, and ask you to return it within 24 hours? Would the test appear on some (secure) website? How would one prevent an unscrupulous person from making copies of the test and posting them publicly? How would one ensure that the person registered for the course was the person who actually provided the answers? I don't think that this is very easy to do in practice.

Finally, on a very practical level, why should someone volunteer to teach this course? I teach astronomy courses at a university; in exchange, I receive money and some amount of credit among my peers and managers. I do not think that my department head would give me any credit for teaching a course on BAUT -- by which I mean "lessen my current duties." I doubt that BAUT would pay me to do it; even if they wanted to, there would be so many legal issues that it would be impractical. So, as far as I can tell, it seems that a person who would agree to teach this course would be volunteering to do a heck of a lot of work -- purchasing video equipment, hiring a staff to perform the filming and editing, making up tests and grading them -- for, well, "for fun."

I hate to act like a wet blanket, but I don't really see how this notion of teaching a course could work in practice. Perhaps I'm misunderstanding what you had in mind -- if so, please set me straight.

Great, and yes, I recently received an add including his work. I have considered it and I may still buy it. However, I am spoiled with the interaction BAUT brings and hope to see this interaction used with the course.

Wow. I have seen his name mentioned numerous times. The supernova/expansion effort is one powerful study that comes to mind.

I had hoped it was obvious, but not everyone, perhaps, is watching the BA and listening to Fraser and Pam.

Yes, which is why I suspect it hasn't been mentioned before. When this thread first started there were no BA blog videos. Today, however, there are 4 YouTube presentations that are not only educational but also very entertaining. Fraser and Pam produce a great contribution, too. Both parties are just getting started, too.

These contemporary, more in-your-face (and ears), approaches appeal to me more than my usual learning experience by using books. I would bet those younger than me would prefer this program over a traditional one, unless they seek a formal education for career, or other, purposes.

If it's not Pam and Fraser - forget it!!! [Or is this too obvious a suck-up to get their involvement. ] Actually, I was not aware of these, but any audio or video that would fit into a course program should be considered. [As long as it is approved by all parties, of course.]

You drove the nail in one wack! Earning a certificate here wouldn't be that much of a deal for someone like yourself, but think about all those who will never have the time, energy, devoition, or, possibly, intellectual prowess to engage in a traditional degree program.

Confession time (kinda humbling, too)... where are they.... ok ... start the music... [feel free to skip this confession portion.]


Around 1960, as a little kid, I somehow acquired a small book that had facts about astronomy. I became thrilled with the sheer magnitude of what I was trying to comprehend and equally amazed that such knowledge was known. The amazing cosmos bekoned me (as opposed to English and most of the liberal arts). My folks gifted me a rusty, old 6" Dynascope (a Newtonian) after waiting months (my folks needed to see how serious I felt about it before shelling out the bucks). The clock drive was gone and the gears rusted. Regardless, it was very special to me and we even had something in common - we were both about the same weight! That did not deter my efforts to wrestle down some celestial objects.

Later, my HS grades, though I was pretty good with math and science, were a negative contribution to any serious consideration for a career in astronomy. If I were to choose the course I loved the most, astronomy, then I could easily find myself becoming discouraged and, worse, ending-up falling short of most everyone else such that I might not be able to contribute much to something I hold so special. [Or put another way, I ain't gonna be last at anything, at least not on a regular basis. ]

I did take astronomy as an elective. I paid $6.85 (+/- 0.50) for the used hard-bound text book. [The price is still in the book, but not here with me.] It was published about 7 or 8 yrs. prior to the class and all black and white. The old and cold textbook was my first clue. Then, when I went to class, they changed the prof., at least I think they changed them, to my calculus prof. - old man Kent. He was a great calculus prof., though my hand cramped on many occasions. I refused to allow an inadequate text book and a likely dry math approach pervert my sense of wonderment of the cosmos. I dropped the course after the first class. [I kept the book and it is very helpful with comgined magnitude computations, for example. ] I never had time for another course.


[I am almost over the self-abasement of that period. See why I like being a heliochromologist, it fits me to a tee! It may be the tinest totem pole yet, but I just may be at the top, and it may prove to be helpful, somehow. ]

The typical reasons of time and money prohibit any college program for me. Of course, books help greatly, and I have ~ 100. This forum augments my interest greatly, even more than books.

I would love to see something educational for me, selfish soul that I am, that incorporates all the static and dynamic elements that exist today with this forum, YouTube, tapes, texts, images, animations, etc. I want it all, and that is asking a lot. But why not? I think if something really special were to happen, it would spring forth from the BAUT well, right? Students need other students and mentors to keep us stirred. This forum has the people element that self-courses do not. The use of threads will be very helpful to the program, whatever it is.

Multiple choice questions on web pages should be easy enough. Us students could even develop the question list. One person has already started, going back a few pages on this thread. We are eager to help.

The grades would be compiled and contribute to the eventual certification(s). Reltated questions to this would be the number of times a person could take the test for certification and who will tabulate and issue certifications?

How do the internet courses do them now? One method is to have several different tests prepared such that they are given randomly.

Maintaining high integrity would be difficult, and probably not necessary unless the goal for the BAUT certificate is to command real merit. If so, then, perhaps, at an appointed time, the student could be asked questions by a forum panel, in private. Giving answers on the spot will not be easy for any cheater. Response time would be a factor. Other students, holding the answers, could administer this phase of certification to not burden the professionals.

I do not think, at least initially, that this would be too big an issue. If, however, it is desired that a BAUT Certificate reach some sort of high status, then there are methods to verify students, at least ones taking responsibility. [Your question reminds me of the fictious person that obtained a degree at UT long ago.]

Great point, and thanks for being candid with this issue. That was my concern from the start. When do you retire? (just kidding) This is why I am anxious to get students involved in this. Let the pros guide and the students work. Topics where a student is interested enough to want to prepare something, he or she can start a thread, after some research on their own. That is the beauty of BAUT, help is armed and ready.

Students here would want to help ,too. As you know, when we have to teach something, we are motivated to learn much more than otherwise. I'll be happy to help, but my approach is to make it some kind of adventure, opposite to my prior class experience. A cornball approach might actually work for the younger crowd.

Yet, students may not have too much work to do if we can use other's work. Only orgainization, testing, and certification may be necessary.

If we use the material I've mentioned, and perhaps yours and any other with approval, then I don't know what other legal issues would be necessary considerations.

Regarding pay, I am for it, actually. Paying a small fee to have an actual astronomer, or physicist, approve and issue a certification would be worth something to me. A disclaimer to protect the professional from harm might be necessary but understandable. I might suggest something like $2 or $3 per year of a student's age. The old dogs, like me, should be able to afford it more than the teenage whipper snappers. Some funds could go to BAUT, if allowable, but most could go to the prof. Of course, I assume school administrators would approve and not frown on this, but I don't have any way to know. In industry, we do allow side commissions to the salesforce for their assistance in sales not part of our program.

IMO, if HS kids get into this, it would only help college programs. It would have been great for me.

I hope I have convinced you that you would have lots of student help to keep this to a minimum. Once we establish a firm plan, we can recruit and find out how true, or not, this is. If there is little help, then there is little interest, and the timing or planning, or both, would be at fault.

No, you are not a wet blanket at all. You are stating what needed to be said on the first page. The omission of posts from the known big dogs is testimony enough. Who can blame them? They aren't here for even more teaching time. The key to success is that it must indeed be fun for all, and that means little work for the prof. and rewarding work for the students. The students here will do it, IMO. With Google at fingertip and BAUT threads, what is to stop them?

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Lighten up! This is a stellar board!

I was just thinking about emailing Fraser or the BA to ask their ideas regarding the use of their presentations to build a class. After watching the latest Q & BA and learning of the haitus, that will dampen the idea for a while.

Any thoughts on this?

Hmmm....what about amateur hour? Could not some questions get resolved on a thread with the purpose of getting a clear picture to whomever would be willing to do a Q & A presentation? A proxy or interim presenter, I suppose?

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Lighten up! This is a stellar board!

what with my real life, and my super-secret-double-encoded-nobody-knows-about-it life, I've recently not had the time I like to spend here... so my addition to this thread may cover old ground..

I have a passing interest in astronomy.. most of my 'knowledge' collected like old beer cans on the side of the road. Much, therefore, doesn't connect.

I love the idea of an entry-level course here - but I foresee ... difficulties.

Just off the top of my head:

Since this would be - by its very nature - an informal class, each student will be proceeding at his own pace - as intellect and time allow. If not handled correctly, the faster learners (or simply those with more pre-knowledge) will rapidly get bored and spin off into other orbits. Those with a steeper learning curve may decide that the climbing shoes are too expensive and parachute out - which might possibly leave *nobody*.

My thought is to see if a ... multithreaded course could be worked out. Instructor(s) teach at the pace of each of the students.

This puts a lot more pressure than normal on the instructor staff - as on the same day they'll have to field questions from the full spectrum of vict.. er.. students. In and of itself, this isn't that bad - but usually in a class, the students are all working on the same set of problems. As this course progresses, the spectrum will spread. It'll get much worse if there are latecomers, too.
I would suggest that this type of teaching requires a *staff* of instructors..and a slightly different way of operating (more on this in a bit).

In general, too, there's more to teaching than simply presenting knowledge. The instructor has to chop up the subject matter and stuff it into the majority of the students. If he's a bad cook, nobody's going to eat the meal. (I'm sure y'all have thought of this, but let's put it out in the open where anybody can throw rocks at it). Just putting facts and figures in front of the class pretty much guarantees nobody's going to learn anything. Here, we have one of the best possible educational vehicles ever devised. All in one place we can get text/graphs, animation, voice, music, and "real" video. The only thing missing is the smell of chalk dust (or, for those with less life experience, dry erase markers). The instructor staff is going to have to decide how best to deliver the material. It would be nice to have more than simple text with the occasional pretty picture.

Not only that, the instructor has to *drive* the course. The instructor determines where in the knowledge stream the course starts, where it ends, and how many greyhound stations it stops at along the way. I have lost track of the times I've seen the instructor let the class drive. I don't think I learned anything but why a car has only one steering wheel...

Back to the classroom...

My basic thought is that we convince the powers that be to allow us to set up teh BAUT Univerity at the main level of this forum. (this would allow for other courses in the future, if so desired. Sure, threads can be moved.. but why not do it right in the first place?)

In each "course" a thread would be devoted to a chapter/segment. A separate thread would be devoted to the quizes and tests. Ideally - and I don't know if the forum software will allow it - a student would not be allowed to see a test until an instructor authorized it. If the student does not pass the test, he can't see the next chapter/test. The staff would need to define a passing grade, and whether or not a student would be allowed to proceed to the next chapter after X tries.

Of course, there's no way exams/quizes could be anything but "open book" - not possible to ensure that slobs such as myself aren't sitting here at home with 60 years of "Sky and Telescope" and half a library of Astronomy books.

Which brings me to a side bar - source standards. I know there's been some discussion of books (online, etc), so this has already come up - but I'll say it anyway: it's absolutely essential that sources be announced at the start of the course, if not at the start of each chapter, and maintained all the way through the quiz/exam. More than once I've been bagged by an instructor who taught from one book and took exam questions from another (we had words, we did!)

Every thread should be moderated - pertinent questions only, etc. with the instructor staff as moderators. Great care should be taken that every <i>question</i> be posted and answered as fully as possible.( I differentiate here between the question and the questioner)

On the good side, as students progress into later chapters/courses, those who show a willingness, ability, and clear enough grasp of the earlier subject matter can be brought in as teaching assistants - responding to questions from the.. um.. underclassmen. Supervised, of course. This would take some of the repetetive (shall we say "annonying" ?) work off the shoulders of the "official" staff.

A certificate of some kind would be a good thing. Sure, in the grand scheme of things it means less than my parking ticket, but it's eveidence to the *student* that he's achieved something. But there's no reason not to make the student pay for it.
Yes, I'd rather see it mailed than downloaded. It may be just me, but it would feel better to ME if the certificate were slightly oversized.. say.. 14 X 16? (gaseous numbers - that is, pulled right out of the air). The idea is that something of such dimensions would obviously not fit in a standard laser printer, so it HAD to come from the outside world...
Lends a little emotional credence to the certificate.

I think I've blathered on long enough. Just some observations and thoughts based on my years as a student, and the many years I spent watching my dad teach.