I'm running Windows 98SE on a 166 MHz computer with a slowish
modem connection. It should be possible to install Internet
Explorer 5.5 and DirectX 9.x. Can I get them on CD-ROMs at a
software store? Or elsewhere? I'm thinking that they've been
widely distributed free with magazines, but I never got one.

-- Jeff, in Minneapolis

__________________
http://www.FreeMars.org/jeff/

"I find astronomy very interesting, but I wouldn't if I thought we
were just going to sit here and look." -- "Van Rijn"

"The other planets? Well, they just happen to be there, but the
point of rockets is to explore them!" -- Kai Yeves

I'm sorry to say this, Jeff, but even with 512MB of memory, neither will run efficiently on a 166 MHz computer. It's time to bite the bullet and upgrade.

For less than $1,000 you can own a 3 GHz machine, 1 GB RAM, 100 GB Hard drive, the latest operating system, case, power supply, CD/DVD+/- burner, and Office professional.

For the amount of time and effort you'd spend trying to make your 166 MHz machine do a single jumping jack, a new machine could vault you over the Moon for half the effective price.

That may be true of DirectX 9.x, but it is not likely true of
Internet Explorer 5.5 because I had IE 5.5 on this machine
and used it every day for almost three years under Windows ME
with 64 kB RAM. I'm currently using IE 5.0 which came with
Windows 98 SE.

-- Jeff, in Minneapolis

__________________
http://www.FreeMars.org/jeff/

"I find astronomy very interesting, but I wouldn't if I thought we
were just going to sit here and look." -- "Van Rijn"

"The other planets? Well, they just happen to be there, but the
point of rockets is to explore them!" -- Kai Yeves

Instead of torturing Ye Olde PC with a IE 5.5 install, I suggest a legacy version of Opera, version 6.06b, released in 2003, and is a dial-up modem-friendly 3.4 MB download.

I have installed DirectX 9.0c on two Win 98SE machines (233 MHz and 550 MHz), both featuring ancient on-board video. The software is backward compatible, but it won't, of course, turn old hardware into new.

If you are going to use it for Web surfing and word processing, 64 MB of RAM, a lightweight browser like Opera 6.06b, and AVG Free Edition antivirus is all you need.

Presumably you mean that, after installing Windows ME, you had only 64 kB of RAM left...?

__________________
The quarrelsome oarsmen were rowing,
The great violinist was bowing;
But how is the sage
To tell, from the page:
Was it pigs or seeds that were sowing?

Ooooops! Make that M for mega. 64 kB is what my Commodore
computer had. I guess I still think in kilobytes.

-- Jeff, in Minneapolis

__________________
http://www.FreeMars.org/jeff/

"I find astronomy very interesting, but I wouldn't if I thought we
were just going to sit here and look." -- "Van Rijn"

"The other planets? Well, they just happen to be there, but the
point of rockets is to explore them!" -- Kai Yeves

Heck just turn on automatic updates and let it run overnight, that should get those updates plus many misc security fixes you might be missing.

__________________
Reality is for those that can't handle video games.

I've read the descriptions of scads of security fixes, and they all--
every last one-- were to fix problems in things I don't have installed,
such as Outlook Express or Java.

Weren't IE 5.5 and possibly even DirectX 9.x ever distributed on
"free" CD-ROMs? And if so, where can I obtain one?

-- Jeff, in Minneapolis

__________________
http://www.FreeMars.org/jeff/

"I find astronomy very interesting, but I wouldn't if I thought we
were just going to sit here and look." -- "Van Rijn"

"The other planets? Well, they just happen to be there, but the
point of rockets is to explore them!" -- Kai Yeves

DX9 is frequently distributed on "magazine" cds like Maximum PC, but IE5.5 hasn't been distributed for at least the last 5 years. If you can stand an all-night download, you can find it here:

http://www.oldversion.com/program.php?n=msie

but it rings in at 84 megs. Honestly, IMO, your best option is having someone grab you Zone Alarm, AVG Free, Adaware, Spybot, DX9c, IE 5.5, and Opera, burn them, and send them to you on a cd. I can't think, offhand, why you'd want to download the newest DX onto that machine, though, unless your current version is buggy. That rig won't even handle mild DX7 games, let alone DX9 games.

__________________
"I have this theory that the Apollo missions were faked when NASA found out that general relativity was wrong because the Earth was expanding due to the Sun's iron core being influenced by magnetic waves from the electric universe after being perturbed by Planet X and thereby causing global warming. Where should I start a thread about this?" ~ ToSeek

"Those are the people that wonder how a thermos knows whether to keep something hot or keep something cold." ~ NeoWatcher

So there are probably a couple of million copies sitting around
now waiting for someone like me who actually wants one?

I downloaded a 9 MB (I think it was) version of IE 5.5 from MS
several months ago. I started the install process, and it said
that it needed to go online to download the program. Okaaaay...
I went online and downloaded the larger file (25 MB, I think--
about five hours). When I started the install process again,
it immediately told me that I needed to go online to download
the program. * * * * So I did. It started what appeared to
be a repeat of the 25 MB download, so I pulled the plug.

Ah, yes. I recall seeing that version, too.

I downloaded a utility that runs under Windows 98, installed it,
and was then told that it requires DX9.

-- Jeff, in Minneapolis

__________________
http://www.FreeMars.org/jeff/

"I find astronomy very interesting, but I wouldn't if I thought we
were just going to sit here and look." -- "Van Rijn"

"The other planets? Well, they just happen to be there, but the
point of rockets is to explore them!" -- Kai Yeves

Well you can pick and choose which components to be installed, if there are some you dont think you need just uncheck them. But you are still looking at hours of download time.

You best bet might be to do as Serenitude suggested, find a friend with a fast connection and a cd burner and have them download them for you.

__________________
Reality is for those that can't handle video games.

The current version of ZoneAlarm, version 6.5, does not support Windows 98/98SE/ME. Even if it did, it would be too heavy for a 166 MHz PC. On ZoneAlarm's release history page, the oldest version available for download (4.8 MB) is version 4.5.594.000, released in 2004. That version of ZoneAlarm requires at least a 233 MHz processor and recommends 48 MB of RAM.

I would think a Sony Playstation 2 would vasty outclass a 166 MHz PC in game play. And the game console now sells for what you would pay for a fairly low-end PC video card (if you can find one that would work in such an old machine).

That's back a few generations. I built a 133 Mhz system in '95 when that was state of the art, 166 came out a few months later. I do keep a 450 mhz system with Win 98SE around to run some dos games and as a backup system. I use a 1.07 version of Firefox on that box.

Directx requires hardware compatibility too. The first directx 9 compatible board I had was an ATI Video Wonder 9700, which was in a system substantially more advanced than the 450 mhz system.

It's just hard finding much software today that's going to run on an older machine.

__________________
I say there is an invisible elf in my backyard. How do you prove that I am wrong?

Disclaimer: Avatar is not an official NASA image and does not imply any specific interplanetary or interstellar capability.

The Leif Ericson Cruiser

Assuming that "3l337 h4XoRz" (elite hackers) don't find his computer and use some as yet unpatched vulnerability to root-kit it.

__________________
Microsoft is over if you want it.

The bar has been lowered for the promotion of ATM ideas; the bar for the acceptance of ATM ideas must remain high.

Ugh. I'm not used to thinking in 95/98 terms On the game end, a PS2 and xbox are at least a match for most modern systems, and vastly outclass a box that old.

Really thinking outside the box, though, with a system that old, I would go with an ISO burn of Linux - that's going to be the best bang for the buck an a rig with those specs

__________________
"I have this theory that the Apollo missions were faked when NASA found out that general relativity was wrong because the Earth was expanding due to the Sun's iron core being influenced by magnetic waves from the electric universe after being perturbed by Planet X and thereby causing global warming. Where should I start a thread about this?" ~ ToSeek

"Those are the people that wonder how a thermos knows whether to keep something hot or keep something cold." ~ NeoWatcher

OldVersion.com has an archived copy of ZoneAlarm 2.6. That version should work with a 166 MHz PC and is only a 2.8 MB download.

The version of Opera I recommended may be an ad-sponsored version, possibly still requiring registration to block the ads. It cost $$ in the past to register Opera, but perhaps it's now free.

It won't run, but you might convince it to crawl... I used a 486/33 longer than I care to imagine before jumping to a 1GHz machine in Dec. 1999. Prior to that, I learned that any computer can run almost any software.
















Eventually...


I'd seriously recommend running to Best Buy or whatever analogue exists in your area, and snagging a low end e-machines POJ if you're just looking for a browsing machine upgrade that's going to keep you somewhere within hailing distance of cutting edge software capability. They should be under the $300 mark by now. Most will throw in a monitor as a part of the package, but to be honest, that's probably the only part of your current machine that won't need replacing to use current software.

Microshlock software tends to be at the cutting edge of memory hogging, and they've had a dozen generations of machine beyond yours to bog down in pointless code. Like I said, any machine will run almost any software eventually. It should work, if you don't mind load times that run into geological timescales.

__________________
The last time I felt a warm fuzzy feeling, I was informed by my doctor that it was just gas.

The problem is that Microsoft does not support Windows 98/ME anymore. They have updated the two as far as is now. I'm with Doodler on this one, time to think about plopping $500 or so on a new computer. It'll run a lot faster, and won't complain too much when you want to do something. Be advised, some older programs don't like Windows XP very much. So far I haven't run into it, but others have.

__________________
"4th Law of Modern Thermodynamics: Where Mihoshi is, Chaos Reigns." ~W. Hakubi
"Gun control is hitting your target; Recycling is reloading your brass." ~ Lex of Dirty Work.

IE 5.5 ran just fine on this machine when I had it installed
under Windows ME. I can't be sure that it would work as well
under Windows 98 SE-- IF I can get it to install.

Best Buy's world headquarters is less than nine miles away
from me, and visible from my parents' apartment windows.

Actually, I've been promised a used 600 MHz machine, but
don't have my hands on it yet. The OS I'm using now is
pirated from that machine. I will use MS software, but I'm
not going to pay MS for it again. I may put Linux on the
600 MHz machine.

IE 5.0 has occasional glitches-- especially on BAUT--, and I
thought 5.5 might fix that. The DirectX 9 is only needed for
one rather unimportant utility I wanted to use.

Twelve generations in nine years?

I wrote a utility in assembly language for my first computer
which added 25 new hotkey functions to the built-in operating
system. It was a total of 431 bytes, not including the tiny
BASIC program which installed the ML routines in two otherwise
unused parts of memory. The functions included things like
changing the screen foreground, background, and border colors
with the arrow keys, linking and unlinking lines of BASIC text,
clearing the screen below the cursor, and listing the disk
directory.

The ML had my signature and the year in 3 bytes: "JSR $1991".

A couple of years ago I wrote a program which runs under Windows
which shows how much of a file is taken up by "zero" bytes.
Many Miscrosoft EXEs and DLLs are more than 40% zeros.

-- Jeff, in Minneapolis

__________________
http://www.FreeMars.org/jeff/

"I find astronomy very interesting, but I wouldn't if I thought we
were just going to sit here and look." -- "Van Rijn"

"The other planets? Well, they just happen to be there, but the
point of rockets is to explore them!" -- Kai Yeves

Two thingies:

I'm fairly sure I still have my old Win2k disc and serial around here somewhere. You're more than welcome to it if'n you want it.

Also, I still have an Opera password, if you find you need one for an older version. Just drop me an email or PM if you find yourself needing the password, or if you want my old Win2k cd

__________________
"I have this theory that the Apollo missions were faked when NASA found out that general relativity was wrong because the Earth was expanding due to the Sun's iron core being influenced by magnetic waves from the electric universe after being perturbed by Planet X and thereby causing global warming. Where should I start a thread about this?" ~ ToSeek

"Those are the people that wonder how a thermos knows whether to keep something hot or keep something cold." ~ NeoWatcher

Thanks for the offers, Serenitude. I appreciate them and they'll
come to mind if the situation arises that I can make good use of
either. I know almost nothing about either Windows 2000 or
Opera, so I'll do a bit of research. Opera sounds attractive if it
is ad-free.

-- Jeff, in Minneapolis

__________________
http://www.FreeMars.org/jeff/

"I find astronomy very interesting, but I wouldn't if I thought we
were just going to sit here and look." -- "Van Rijn"

"The other planets? Well, they just happen to be there, but the
point of rockets is to explore them!" -- Kai Yeves

Generational improvements in CPU speed. 250-333-500-750-800-1000, etc. Those kinds of machine generations.

You're running that thing when the current state of the art is around a 4GHz machine, thats a LOT of generational improvement.

__________________
The last time I felt a warm fuzzy feeling, I was informed by my doctor that it was just gas.

IE 5.5 or 6.0 (6.1) will all work under Win 98 SE without any issues, I just upgraded to XP from Win 98 SE. Even though MS doesn't support it any more, you should still be able to get the download update from their site, have you tried?

__________________
Howling from the Shadows

It must be fun to lead a life completely unburdened by reality. --- JayUtah

You can't reason an irrational person out of an irrational belief. --- Noclevername

Apollo: The History and the Hoax
Enter the World of Athran

I did download IE 5.5 and tried to install it. My earlier description
of the process was wrong in some details, but running the first
download instructed me to download and install someting else,
which in turn instructed me to download and install something
else, which when I tried to install it, wanted to download yet
something else! I quit in disgust at that point. I may try again
when I feel like spending a few hours on it.

-- Jeff, in Minneapolis

__________________
http://www.FreeMars.org/jeff/

"I find astronomy very interesting, but I wouldn't if I thought we
were just going to sit here and look." -- "Van Rijn"

"The other planets? Well, they just happen to be there, but the
point of rockets is to explore them!" -- Kai Yeves

Jeff, I don't think it's necessary to register the earlier versions of Opera anymore. I uninstalled version 9.02 on my Windows XP machine and installed version 6.06 (in C:\Program Files\Opera6). Clicking on the Opera banner in the upper right hand corner of the browser will load a secure page where you can buy Opera like in the past, but then it quickly changes to the newer "Premium Support" page where you can buy support via e-mail. I have not seen any ads other than the Opera banner, which is no big deal.

The first several times I tried to load this thread in Opera 6.06 it crashed. When I restarted Opera with the last page I viewed instead of restarting with my home page, the crashes stopped. BAUT pages in Opera 6.06 look fine and I had no problems logging in with it. I had Firefox running at the same time during all of this.

IE 5.5 SP2 worked fine in a slightly faster Win 95 Compaq box (48 MB) I had. It was certainly superior to IE 4.0. Since you're using a dial-up modem and not a resource-sucking cable or DSL modem and have 64 MB of RAM, IE 6 SP1 should work OK. You can order IE 6 SP1 on CD from Microsoft here.

Could the glitches be due to low screen resolutions and low color bit depth? PCs from that era often had trouble displaying a resolution of 1024x768 pixels or more with a decent color bit depth. If so, I doubt IE 5.5 will fix that.

i did not read through this entire post. i just read the first few responses.

do not buy a $1000 machine. buy something in range of $300. you can get a 2ghz 512mb RAM WinXP machine EASY!

Better act fast before Vista is all they will sell!

__________________
Microsoft is over if you want it.

The bar has been lowered for the promotion of ATM ideas; the bar for the acceptance of ATM ideas must remain high.

My "advice": get on the 64-bit train, the AMD64 variety (which in a wonderfully ironic twist, Intel had to clone and calls it EM64T -- which some call "iAMD64" to tweak Intel; I remember reading someone presenting evidence that Intel's starving manual writers actually copied AMD docs almost verbatim when they were scrambling to get EM64T out).

I built a 64-bit machine using an AMD Athlon 64 during the 64-bit XP beta days just to play.

I've always been a dual CPU nut, and at the time that wasn't available in 64-bit. But now you can even get dual dual-core mo/bos (total of 4 CPUs). "Ol' reliable" here, a dual PIII machine that I'm typing on now, is about ready to go out to pasture. I'm probably gonn get one of these dual socket, dual core Opteron boards.....

ETA: I can't believe I forgot to mention this: virtualization. Make sure the CPU you get has the newer vitual machine extenstions. Virtual PC by MS, and VMware by somebody else have become pretty popular. Getting one OS, which wants to be the boss and rung at ring 0, max privelege to run as a process under the actual OS has been a problem, but they've jumped through the hoops to do it purely in software (basically by emulating the protected ring-0 operations). And so Intel and AMD have come up with new modes to allow it to be done in hardware. Sort of virtual full protected mode that can fool any OS into thinking it's really in charge.

I've got Virtual PC and love it, as I can run old versions of Win 9x and NT, good ol' read DOS, and even OS/2 in virtual machines under XP. The forthcoming versions of the VM software will take advantage of the new hardware modes for this.

VMs are the best way to run your old DOS and such under XP and above. VMs are also wonderful for protection against viruses and other Internet nasties. Networking is implemented by putting your net card in promiscuous mode and virtualizing a second Ethernet address for the VM.

-Richard

I have a 17" monitor, which is a bit too small for everyday use
at 1024x768, and as you suggest, my video card can't do
24-bit color at 1024x768, so I almost always work at 800x600,
and 24 or 32-bit color. (I wrote a page for my website, the
primary purpose of which was to tell people to change video
settings from the default 16-bit color to 24-bit or higher, to
view images properly. Probably not necessary anymore.)
I'm almost certain the video can't be the problem, unless some
fancy graphic things on some web pages, such as Flash in ads
here on BAUT, tell the video to do something it can't. Thing is,
I wasn't having these problems while running IE 5.5 under
Windows ME. But then, that was before BAUT (and other
websites) introduced the latest and greatest annoyware.

The main sign of a problem is that IE almost always crashes
several seconds after I close it. Sometimes it crashes
just after I start loading a page, though.

-- Jeff, in Minneapolis

__________________
http://www.FreeMars.org/jeff/

"I find astronomy very interesting, but I wouldn't if I thought we
were just going to sit here and look." -- "Van Rijn"

"The other planets? Well, they just happen to be there, but the
point of rockets is to explore them!" -- Kai Yeves