'1' - The Universe exists.
'0' - The Universe does not exist.

Ok, so...With regard to the property of existence, or the property of something existing (for lack of an actual term for this).

The state of absolute nothingness ('0'). In this state, nothing exists, not space, not time, not energy, not the potentiality for anything to exist - nothing. That is to say, nothing has the property of existing, nothing even has the property of not existing. In other words true (absolute) nothing - the state of '0'.

The state of existing ('1'). This is what is, now. That is to say, something with the property of existence(existing), exists this very moment. This something is the Universe, which is all that exists, by definition. The idea that the Universe is everything that has the property of existing, is easy to comprhend, even with limited knowledge, visibility, and comprehension of the Universe.


If '0' exists, then how is '1' supposed to just appear? By what mechanism? Wouldn't '0' just not exist forever, but without any time, since nothing can cause anything, since nothing is? Billions of billions of billions of years pass, and nothing changes, since not only does nothing have the property of existing or not-existing, nothing even is, to change. Not even nothing - the state of '0'.

But, since the state of '1' exists, does this not suggest that it always existed in some form or another? Always, that is to say, nothing BUT the state of '1' is even possible. The reasoning is...since nothing from the sate of '0' is possible (not even the state of '0' perhaps?), and since '1' is....then '0' is impossible, and '1' always was, in some form or another.

Now "always was" is a pretty long time, and *this* is what it feels like.

From this, I was thinking...'1' from '0' is impossible, but if we pretend for a second that it is, then what do we get?

This is what I got...
If you now imagine the precise monent from which the state of '0' turns into '1', what do you see? In my opinion, the question to be answered first, is where and how much to appear? This is because, as soon as one thing with the property of '1' appears, the state of '0' dissapears, and '1' is now what is (instead of not is - '0'). That is to say, that as soon as '1' appears, '0' does not reamain "around" it...in other words, when something with the property of existence exists, something with the property of non-existence cannot exist.

Again...'0' ------> '1' ...nothing existed ------> something exists, which is now everything (and the only thing) that exists, aka. the Universe.

So, how much and where to appear? Where - Everywhere where nothing existed. How much - enough to fill everywhere where nothing existed. Why - because nothing exists in '0' to prevent this filling of '0' from happening, once it starts. So, how much would this be? Well, it would be quite a bit, I'd say an infinite amount. How does it start - this is the reason why '0' to '1' is impossible. Not only does the stuff coming into existence not exist anywhere, it does not even have a place to come into existence.

If you're still with me, then you still remember that this '0' to '1' transition is purely fictional, as true '0' cannot become '1'. As illustrated by in the last question, and the first few paragraphs of this post.

So, without going into existence being suitable for life, and the whole concept of consciousness (material for another thread), what do you think?

Is the state of '0' possible? Is '0' to '1' possible? Is '1' to '0' possible?

Thanks.

Aspirin exists.

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Keeper of the Jabberwock

I post, therefore I am.

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Don of Borg - Cool, Calm, Collective.

"Within the next generation I believe that the world's leaders will discover that infant conditioning and narco-hypnosis are more efficient, as instruments of government, than clubs and prisons, and that the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

It won't after this thread hits 20 pages...

Doodler, you are much too conservative with your 20 page prediction, people are way too excited about this thread.

Patience, padawan, I know this crew. The build up is subtle, but there are a lot of battles from the .9999~1 thread that have yet to be resolved.

There will be battle here.

/klingonmode OFF

It could yield a good discussion on quantum superposition...

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If you're careful enough, nothing bad or good will ever happen to you.

The universe cannot not exist, currently.

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Bring back Firefly!

"It is quite clear that Occam's razor does not sharpen in your pyramid." (Nicolas)

"Still, a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest." (Paul Simon)

This heavily depends on precise definition of "Universe". Which one? The one we believe exists, or the one we percieve? By "Universe" do you mean the 4 dimentional space we currently exist in? If that is the case, we are already at 0 and 1, considering all the singularities floating about. Who knows? Maybe if we peer too far back into the past, we'll collapse the pan-galactic waveform and cease to exist :P

#Edit#
Perhaps the first lifeform on this planet already began the collapse of the universal waveform, and the "front" we see is the edge of the observeable universe. Stupid amino acids!

My signature: A brief history of time.

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0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 ...

01101001 shows us that either option is possible, in odd patterns. He didn't exist, did exist, existed again, was snuffed out but came back, then left again, and was gone, but showed up later.

Aye, but never 3 times in a row, not even for any pattern 3 times in a row. (Thue-Morse is cubefree.)

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0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 ...

• You have nothing in your hands. I put a cookie in it. You now have one cookie.

• 0-->1=possable.

• I run over, punch you in the face and take my cookie back because you said something about my mother. You now have no more cookies.

• 1-->0=possable.

Point proven.

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Maybe we have 0 sometimes and at other times we have 1 and -1 so the total is always 0. There might be a negative universe somewhere that will produce nothing if it meets ours.

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Life is like a box of chocolates. All of your choices are bad for you.

I would like to hear some more thoughts on this, if possible.

Those who voted and/or think that '0' to '1' and '1' to '0' is possible, could you please explain your reasoning? And possibly correct my reasoning. If you can , could you please discuss where and how much to "appear"/come into existence, in your answer.

Once again I would like to remind everyone that we are talking about true '0' states, not just rearranging something that is already in a state of/has the property of existing.

To add some more fuel to the fire...From the OP, assuming its logic is correct, does time exist? That is to say, that if the Universe always existed, does time have any meaning if we consider the entire existence?

Thanks.

Looks like I'm the only one who voted so far for option 3. Thats because I "feel" that creating a universe is sort of like the vulcanization of rubber. Once done it can not be undone due to unreservable processes.

(One step closer to Doodler's twenty pages)

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Gimme a minute to read through Jay's latest observations...

I do not understand the question.

Sounds like a cat I used to own in high school... He had at least two lives, of that I'm quite certain.

As for the question, one might think that because they know that they're here, 1 is possible, 0 is not. However, what if I were simply a collection of thoughts - no brain, no body, no energy, just pure thought, and that the world as I perceive it is simply my thoughts imagining it that way. For example, I've been in several severe car accidents (only one was my fault), a severe motorcycle accident, several serious bicycling accidents, have jumped off two-story roofs without injury, and was attacked and left for dead. What if the broken bone I had as a kid wasn't to my liking, but I didn't mind a few cuts and bruises, so that's all I've "received" (imagined) since then? By all rights I should have broken my neck and quite a few other bones! Since I haven't, and others have borken theirs with much less impact than I've experienced. Oh, and I can bench press over 500 lbs and my name is Bruce Willis...

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I am Mugs, of the Alien clan of Usa, Nordamerica, a Terran, of Sol. A human.

Whoever says "perception is reality" is daft. It's merely an abstraction, and often not a very good one.

Since the universe is by definition everything, then if the universe doesn't exist, 1=0. Since that is an absurdity, the universe must exist.

Or summin' or nuffin'

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2 good 2 need 4 engines