Real Happiness? - Page 14

Lonewulf · #**391** (**permalink**) 05-March-2007, 08:20 PM

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Originally Posted by Moose

Why force anybody to be anything other than who they are? (So long as no rights are being trampled, of course.) We have billions of people on this planet.

But only 300 million within the United States, and only, like, 20.9 million people within Texas. Yes, I'm being pedantic, but my overall point is that though there may be a lot of people in the world, it takes only a few to effect you.

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Immoderation is fine too, as long as we're not all immoderate in the same way at the same time.

But I didn't say "all". I said the "majority".

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So long as everybody doesn't lean to starboard at the same time, the boat won't capsize.

As moderation, on average, is pretty much the natural state of society, I don't see why people can't simply be left to be who they are.

Is it really the natural state of society, though? I mean, laws are try to keep things moderate, and to try to keep people from being unruly. I wouldn't call a mob riot to be pretty moderate, but that's what you get when you have temporary lawlessness (or rather, lack of enforcing the law) and a lot of people in a packed area.

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There were, (and I'm not pointing fingers), but I consider that view somewhat naive (at best). Society works to propagate society, except that trying to anthropomorphize it will lead you down the garden path.

Yeah, agreed.

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Society works to propagate itself, in the Foucaultian sense.

Wikipedia time.

Couldn't find an article. What's Foucaltian?

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Individuals work to fulfill their own needs (which may include working towards someone else's needs). Where you go after that is a discussion perhaps best left to you and your own circumstances.

As long as you do not negatively influence others, though. Of course, this is a case of moderation once more, but there are times when one must impose moderation upon others (such as riot control police, for my somewhat extreme example above).

Doodler · #**392** (**permalink**) 05-March-2007, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lonewulf

Yes, but there are obviously things that you hold above this pleasure. You would, for instance, forsake your time of pleasure to aid another being (such as a family member or friend) if their well-being was at stake.

I would?

Seriously, yes, within limits. I've had too many people step all over that, so more often than not, if its not life or career threatening, I'll pass. I religiously guard the line between courtesy and obligation, my family is notorious for blurring it at will.

The one thing I put above my own personal interests without question is work. When someone's willing to pay me, I'll be there. That does mean I'll work weekends, on short notice, and I'll stay late into the evening if its critical enough.

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While you may call that a bit more of an altruistic hedonism, it's not all about you.

Though sometimes I wish...we'll see in April when I'm back in my own place. The old karma debt is paid, its Miller Time. I'm sincerely looking forward to the day I can come home at night and turn the cell phone off and forget the world outside my door exists from 7pm to 7am.

Moose · #**393** (**permalink**) 05-March-2007, 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lonewulf

Yes, I'm being pedantic

You are. Without malice (but much bewilderment), did any of that require a response? I'm not sure I can give you one and stay remotely near point. You've succeeded in completely confusing me, I think. I really have no idea what you're trying to argue. Unless you're arguing simply for the sake of argument? That's fine too, but it'd be good to know.

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Couldn't find an article. What's Foucaltian?

Michael Foucault. A French philosopher. I can't find a quote offhand, but he said something about how any organization, no matter how benign and altruistic in the beginning, will eventually regress so that it becomes solely about its own perpetuation.

Foucault was a bit of a crank, but I think he was right about that. I can point to far too many examples not to.

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Of course, this is a case of moderation once more, but there are times when one must impose moderation upon others (such as riot control police, for my somewhat extreme example above).

I said moderation, 'Wulf, not anarchy. Humans are social animals. Even in experimental anarchies where all forms of hierarchy were intentionally controlled and eliminated, the subjects would inevitably form alliances among themselves and seemed to instinctively cooperate for mutual "defense", even when explicitly instructed not to.

We're pack animals, like monkeys or wolves. Social interaction is very natural to us, and may well be indespensible. Get rid of society by some means, it'll reform without any deliberate intervention on our part.

Lonewulf · #**394** (**permalink**) 05-March-2007, 11:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moose

You are. Without malice (but much bewilderment), did any of that require a response? I'm not sure I can give you one and stay remotely near point. You've succeeded in completely confusing me, I think. I really have no idea what you're trying to argue. Unless you're arguing simply for the sake of argument? That's fine too, but it'd be good to know.

I'm just throwing random points out there.

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Michael Foucault. A French philosopher. I can't find a quote offhand, but he said something about how any organization, no matter how benign and altruistic in the beginning, will eventually regress so that it becomes solely about its own perpetuation.

Foucault was a bit of a crank, but I think he was right about that. I can point to far too many examples not to.

I think he was right on that. A lot of social organizations/institutions nowadays like to stick around, just with new objectives when the old ones have been met. Even if it's under another name.

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I said moderation, 'Wulf, not anarchy. Humans are social animals. Even in experimental anarchies where all forms of hierarchy were intentionally controlled and eliminated, the subjects would inevitably form alliances among themselves and seemed to instinctively cooperate for mutual "defense", even when explicitly instructed not to.

We're pack animals, like monkeys or wolves. Social interaction is very natural to us, and may well be indespensible. Get rid of society by some means, it'll reform without any deliberate intervention on our part.

But there's still a need to legislate that moderation, and "moderation", I'd add, is a subjective opinion. What was moderate 200 years ago is extreme by today's comparison; and what's moderate today is extreme in that time period.

closetgeek · #**395** (**permalink**) 06-March-2007, 04:00 PM

It;s another gray issue. Some are, some aren't kind of thing. This is a perfect example. They have these places around here called daily work daily pay. It is a crapshoot, one day you could get paid $15/hr to stand on the side of the road holding a sign advertising a store sale and the next day you could be lugging construction debris. It is, IMHO a solution. All you have to do is show up. So, especially after the hurricanes, but some before that, you see a lot of people holding signs, "Homeless" I have considered hiring people for things I can't do myself but the first thing that comes to mind is that family that hired a vagrant to help with their house and their daughter was kidnapped. Sorry, I will not take that chance...
back to the main point. So driving down State Road 60, you will see obviously down and out people holding signs reading, "homeless need money" while directly across the street you see people holding store sale signs. they are doing the exact same thing but one is getting paid $15/hr to do it.

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Originally Posted by Neverfly

And im calling you BACK on it as you posted out of utter Ignorance.
Had you read my posts in BigDons thread about employement- you would know that i was homeless for nine months- lived behind a soda machine. Bums were always offering me "cheat" advice on how to scam people (advice i never took). Having been "part of their crowd" they were open with me about their scams.

and YES as the owner of my own company- i HAVE offered employment to these guys. I do not Exploit people. I needed a helper and he stood to make some much needed money.
Having been there myself- I understand how for a few- all they want is a chance to get back on their feet. Stopped at a light- with a bum flying a sign (need work etc) I handed him my business card and asked him about willingness to work- and got excuses- medical or whatever. Even offered to pay under the table- for some who may not be able to "qualify" under the paperwork. When a man is hungry and desperate- WORK IS WORK ! I KNOW! been there- remember?
So Moose- before you make wild assumptions- dont place me in your shoes. Im not like you- ignoring the people i see on the street- as i was once one of them. Fortunatly, I have never used drugs or had an alcoholic addiction to Keep Me on the Street- and i DID meet Good People who Offered me employment too- and helped me get my feet back under me.

One common thing here- is to go to the home depot- and standing in the parking lot is a crowd of men hanging out- hoping to get picked up by a contractor for a job for the day.

Granted it is less and lesss that i do this lately. Because these "helpers" oftentimes are Lazy- require CONSTANT supervision- Unreliable- and usually end up costing me more money than they are worth.

There would be no sense in employing a full time man for me at this time.

Whirlpool · #**396** (**permalink**) 15-March-2007, 10:55 AM

I was just wondering , we have been talking all along about this "real happiness" thing and we have shared our thoughts and opinions on it and yet there is still more to what we have shared in this thread and in our lives.

I have several questions in my mind and one is this.

Its ironic why people want to attain happiness for themselves that sometimes they tend to do bad things to people and hurt them intentionally.
Just like "sweet revenge"...

Its selfishness isn't it?

torque of the town · #**397** (**permalink**) 15-March-2007, 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whirlpool

Its ironic why people want to attain happiness for themselves that sometimes they tend to do bad things to people and hurt them intentionally.
Just like "sweet revenge"...
Its selfishness isn't it?

"Happiness is a warm gun"...........

danscope · #**398** (**permalink**) 15-March-2007, 05:33 PM

Don't let television define your own happiness.
*************
Try to lose your hate. It is a burden that ruins a good day.

torque of the town · #**399** (**permalink**) 15-March-2007, 06:16 PM

I blame Mother Superior....

Whirlpool · #**400** (**permalink**) 16-March-2007, 01:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by danscope

Don't let television define your own happiness.
*************
Try to lose your hate. It is a burden that ruins a good day.

Lol.

Comedy Shows and sitcoms can , temporarily.

danscope · #**401** (**permalink**) 16-March-2007, 01:56 AM

Hi, I used to LOVE to watch "Fawlty Towers". To me, this was the most hillarious play I have ever seen !! And of course...The Marx Brothers.
And there is a great belly laugh watching Laurel and Hardy trying to deliver a Piano in San Francisco ( 900 steps.........and......they could have driven the thing around to the top! ).
I still enjoy watching Rodney Dangerfield around the golf course.
Bill Cosby's stand-up routine.
Bob Newhart's stand-up routine.
And if you are old enough to remember black and white TV....Steve Allen and
Ernie Kovacs ,...Jack Parr, Milton Berle

and Jonny Carson.
And........."Monday Night...Time for headlines !"
There are so many things to bring us a laugh. Make it last.
Best regards, Dan
(Did I mention the Python,Monty ?)

satori · #**402** (**permalink**) 16-March-2007, 07:06 PM

apropos Marx Brothers..........to me, the best running gag in the history of celluloid is mute Harpo Marx taking out his big sissors once again

danscope · #**403** (**permalink**) 17-March-2007, 12:26 AM

"Rusty,....tie onna da bed, trow out da window."
***************
"Hey, I want two hard boiled eggs and a bagel with lox and cream cheese.
honk honk........make that four hard boiled eggs..........and a dill pickle...."

Laminal Cockroach · #**404** (**permalink**) 18-March-2007, 01:47 AM

Its been a long time i havent been to this forum, dunno if anyone remembers me, i definitely remember Lonewulf and Gillianren, I'ld like to make my first contributions to this thread, as i find it very interesting.

Vodka!

Whirlpool · #**405** (**permalink**) 18-March-2007, 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Laminal Cockroach

Its been a long time i havent been to this forum, dunno if anyone remembers me, i definitely remember Lonewulf and Gillianren, I'ld like to make my first contributions to this thread, as i find it very interesting.

Vodka!

Hello Laminal Cockroach.

Im a newbie here , so you still dont know me , but anyway, welcome back...
Vodka sometimes help you feel happy especially when you're with friends.

Laminal Cockroach · #**406** (**permalink**) 19-March-2007, 04:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whirlpool

Hello Laminal Cockroach.

Im a newbie here , so you still dont know me , but anyway, welcome back...
Vodka sometimes help you feel happy especially when you're with friends.

and sometimes wen you're not with them....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QtWsF7DajcM

hehe, anyway cheers for the greetings matey

Gillianren · #**407** (**permalink**) 19-March-2007, 07:07 AM

Personally, I'd rather have fun in a way that neither kills my brain cells nor annoys those around me.