Chatroom
 

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Bad Astronomy and Universe Today Forum > General > Off-Topic Babbling
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

   

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 18-February-2007, 03:35 AM
Delvo Delvo is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,182
Default Motherboard options

I'm pondering getting a new motherboard, and, among the factors I see there are for a shopper to consider, I see things I don't know about. Some of it's new stuff that wasn't an issue last time I bought, and some of it I remember from before and have been curious about but just never found out. So, what are these things?...

CPU sockets: they're identified by numbers like 478. How am I to know which kind(s) of CPU fit something like that?

What are north and south bridges?

I remember being told that something with "ATA" in the name was different from the usual ATA/IDE connector for hard drives and optical drives, something new and more advanced, not just another name for the same thing. But was that SATA or PATA? Or both, so neither is just another name for ATA/IDE and we have three separate things here? And in any case, how do I know which one I want?

If a motherboard has 6 or 8 audio channels built in, what kind(s) of input & output jack(s) does it have? SPDIF? Are the 1-or-2-channel 1/8" "headphone-type" analog jacks I'm familiar with gone? If so, do adapters exist that would let me still use the speakers I'm using now, and how could such a computer use a microphone?

Do the new ones being made now still have 3.5" floppy disk drive ports?

I once saw someone saying that two new, more advanced expansion slot types with "PCI" in their names were actually different despite similar names: PCI Express and something like "PCI-e" or "PCI-X". He was correcting someone who'd gotten the two things messed up and used one name in response to a reference to the other. But since then I've only heard of PCI Express, as if there is nothing else to mix it up with. Was that guy just completely off?
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 18-February-2007, 06:10 AM
Maksutov's Avatar
Maksutov Maksutov is offline
Honored Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Fifth corner of the Earth
Posts: 16,731
Default Re: Motherboard options

Here's one place to start. It may be a bit over six months old but it should answer about all of your questions.
__________________
A person's name, or a mark representing it, as signed personally or by deputy, as in subscribing a letter or other document.
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 18-February-2007, 11:27 AM
Moose's Avatar
Moose Moose is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: The Maritimes
Posts: 7,270
Send a message via MSN to Moose
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Delvo View Post
CPU sockets: they're identified by numbers like 478. How am I to know which kind(s) of CPU fit something like that?
That number is the number of pins on the underside of the CPU. Basically, if you get a 478-pin motherboard, you need a 478-pin CPU. They'll both be clearly labelled, so just make sure they match.

Quote:
What are north and south bridges?
Don't worry about it. It's not important enough to affect your shopping decisions.

Quote:
I remember being told that something with "ATA" in the name was different from the usual ATA/IDE connector for hard drives and optical drives, something new and more advanced, not just another name for the same thing. But was that SATA or PATA? Or both, so neither is just another name for ATA/IDE and we have three separate things here? And in any case, how do I know which one I want?
SATA. It's a different connector on your motherboard than your usual hard drives. So if you were buying SATA hard drives, you'd plug them into the SATA slot. If you buy eIDE hard drives, you plug them in the usual way.

SATA is better, but eIDE is more common, less expensive, and plenty good enough for just anybody's needs.

Quote:
If a motherboard has 6 or 8 audio channels built in, what kind(s) of input & output jack(s) does it have? SPDIF? Are the 1-or-2-channel 1/8" "headphone-type" analog jacks I'm familiar with gone? If so, do adapters exist that would let me still use the speakers I'm using now, and how could such a computer use a microphone?
I wouldn't know. There's no standard that I'm aware of in how they lay out onboard sound. I'd expect the 1/8in analog jacks, with possibly an SPDIF connector if it's any good. I rarely trust onboard sound or video, however. It usually ends up being SiS or something.

Most motherboard advertizing will show a detailed shot of their spine, so you'll be able to see what's involved.

Quote:
Do the new ones being made now still have 3.5" floppy disk drive ports?
Yes, AFAIK the floppy controller still exists, it's just that nobody's selling floppy drives anymore. So you'll have to scrounge some if you want 'em. That's usually not a problem.

Quote:
But since then I've only heard of PCI Express, as if there is nothing else to mix it up with. Was that guy just completely off?
I've only ever heard of PCI-E as well. I'd be tempted to say the other guy was completely off, but I'm nowhere near current enough to say for sure.
__________________
[Dr. Horrible]___________________________[Penny]
Listen close to everybody's heart________And you believe there's good in everybody's heart
And hear that breaking sound_____________Keep it safe and sound
Hopes and dreams are shattering apart____With hope you can do your part
And crashing to the ground_______________To turn a life around
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 18-February-2007, 02:18 PM
Mister Earl's Avatar
Mister Earl Mister Earl is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,058
Default

Moose hit the nails on the heads. Nice work. Just ordered some parts myself... saved for months, and I still can't stop drooling. Even paid for next day air with UPS... two days ago X(
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 18-February-2007, 02:21 PM
Moose's Avatar
Moose Moose is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: The Maritimes
Posts: 7,270
Send a message via MSN to Moose
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mister Earl View Post
Moose hit the nails on the heads. Nice work. Just ordered some parts myself... saved for months, and I still can't stop drooling. Even paid for next day air with UPS... two days ago X(
UPS delivers on the weekend? They don't up here.

Thanks, BTW.
__________________
[Dr. Horrible]___________________________[Penny]
Listen close to everybody's heart________And you believe there's good in everybody's heart
And hear that breaking sound_____________Keep it safe and sound
Hopes and dreams are shattering apart____With hope you can do your part
And crashing to the ground_______________To turn a life around
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 18-February-2007, 07:01 PM
Vermonter's Avatar
Vermonter Vermonter is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: The Republic of Vermont
Posts: 1,155
Send a message via AIM to Vermonter
Default

Yeah, Moose covered it pretty well.

Some time ago you could pick between AGP and PCI-E for video card slots, but AGP has pretty much been pushed aside for the faster PCI-E.

Also, the motherboard specs will mention the RAM type. Currently the two common types are DDR and DDR2, with Dual-Channel options. DDR2 is becoming more common in systems. When it mentions memory speed (533/667/800) it is talking about how fast the memory will run at. Generally you want to match up the memory speed with the motherboard, but you can put faster memory into a slower motherboard. Unfortunately really good (in my opinion) RAM costs around $270-$300 for 2 GB of DDR2 Dual-Channel 800 MHz memory, but I'm also a gamer. More normal RAM is cheaper.
__________________
"4th Law of Modern Thermodynamics: Where Mihoshi is, Chaos Reigns." ~W. Hakubi
"Gun control is hitting your target; Recycling is reloading your brass." ~ Lex of Dirty Work.
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 18-February-2007, 07:26 PM
Laguna2's Avatar
Laguna2 Laguna2 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Reiskirchen, Germany
Posts: 2,015
Send a message via ICQ to Laguna2
Default

PCI-X is an extension of the old PCI.
PCI-e is not compatible.
__________________
"Who does not know anything, must believe everything."
Baroness Marie von Ebner-Eschenbach
1830-1916
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 19-February-2007, 12:48 AM
Delvo Delvo is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,182
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moose View Post
That number is the number of pins on the underside of the CPU. Basically, if you get a 478-pin motherboard, you need a 478-pin CPU. They'll both be clearly labelled, so just make sure they match.
Labelled where and how? Are you saying this information is published with CPUs' other information in the manufacturer websites, online catalogs, reviews, and such? I can't think of having ever seen it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moose View Post
SATA. It's a different connector on your motherboard than your usual hard drives. So if you were buying SATA hard drives, you'd plug them into the SATA slot. If you buy eIDE hard drives, you plug them in the usual way.

SATA is better, but eIDE is more common, less expensive, and plenty good enough for just anybody's needs.
So is PATA just another name for ATA? I recall that ATA has multiple names (including IDE) but can't recall them all. And are there no hard disk drives made with both kinds of connector? I thought mine had both, but I haven't looked on the back of them lately...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moose View Post
I rarely trust onboard sound or video, however. It usually ends up being SiS or something.
What is SiS?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moose View Post
Most motherboard advertizing will show a detailed shot of their spine, so you'll be able to see what's involved.
Unfortunately, I'm not familiar with multi-channel inputs & outputs so I wouldn't know what I was looking at. Is SPDIF the only one?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moose View Post
Yes, AFAIK the floppy controller still exists, it's just that nobody's selling floppy drives anymore. So you'll have to scrounge some if you want 'em. That's usually not a problem.
Actually, I wasn't worried about wanting to use one and being unable to; it's more like I think they shouldn't have them anymore because it just wastes motherboard space that could be put to other uses. I might even want to take my current floppy disk drive out and replace it with one of those things that give you a set of USB ports in the drive's space.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vermonter View Post
Some time ago you could pick between AGP and PCI-E for video card slots, but AGP has pretty much been pushed aside for the faster PCI-E.
Why did AGP not catch on for any other kind of card, the ones that now use PCI slots? Have we finally reached a point where only video cards continue to demand any more speed and other kinds of expansion card just don't have any use for it?
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 19-February-2007, 01:14 AM
Moose's Avatar
Moose Moose is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: The Maritimes
Posts: 7,270
Send a message via MSN to Moose
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Delvo View Post
Labelled where and how? Are you saying this information is published with CPUs' other information in the manufacturer websites, online catalogs, reviews, and such? I can't think of having ever seen it.
You'll see it if you're shopping for specific components. You won't see it on a listing for entire machines, such as Dell's website or your local Office Depot's flyer.

Quote:
So is PATA just another name for ATA? I recall that ATA has multiple names (including IDE) but can't recall them all. And are there no hard disk drives made with both kinds of connector? I thought mine had both, but I haven't looked on the back of them lately...
I've never heard the acronym PATA. (As I said, I'm not especially current.) Google it if you want more details.

In any case, you're fine with IDE drives so long as they use one of the faster ATA standards. (Not sure, but I think we're at ATA/100 right now?)

Quote:
What is SiS?
Company that makes components for motherboards. Most onboard video and audio are by them. Let me put it this way: there's a reason I say to stick with true expansion cards by either ATI or NVidia if you intend to play games at all.

In terms of audio, it's not as important. But for what it's worth, my current mobo's onboard audio is sitting unused. I'm using my older Creative Live 4.1 card. I just trust it more.

If all you're doing is web surfing, email, and/or word, then the onboard SiS stuff are fine.

You can use the onboard network port without concern. Not even SiS can nerf a network card.

Quote:
Unfortunately, I'm not familiar with multi-channel inputs & outputs so I wouldn't know what I was looking at. Is SPDIF the only one?
Yes, I don't think anybody's come up with anything new yet. You won't see SPDIF-only support on anything that isn't exceptionally high-end. You probably won't see SPDIF at all on anything that comes with the motherboard, unless it's something really aimed at the gaming market.

Just look at the shot of the back of the motherboard. You'll see immediately what they are. They'll either be headphone jacks (4, 6, or 8 of them), or an SPDIF port (which will look a little bit like a PS/2 mouse connection.)

Quote:
Actually, I wasn't worried about wanting to use one and being unable to; it's more like I think they shouldn't have them anymore because it just wastes motherboard space that could be put to other uses. I might even want to take my current floppy disk drive out and replace it with one of those things that give you a set of USB ports in the drive's space.
Lots of room on ATX form factors. Don't worry about it. It's not important enough to affect your shopping decisions. Just because the port's there doesn't mean you have to plug anything into it.

Quote:
Why did AGP not catch on for any other kind of card, the ones that now use PCI slots? Have we finally reached a point where only video cards continue to demand any more speed and other kinds of expansion card just don't have any use for it?
AGP, if I'm not mistaken, stands for Advanced Graphics Port. It was designed exclusively to feed higher-end video cards. Unlike PCI (and ISA for that matter), it wasn't designed with any sort of versitility in mind.
__________________
[Dr. Horrible]___________________________[Penny]
Listen close to everybody's heart________And you believe there's good in everybody's heart
And hear that breaking sound_____________Keep it safe and sound
Hopes and dreams are shattering apart____With hope you can do your part
And crashing to the ground_______________To turn a life around
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 19-February-2007, 11:34 AM
Laguna2's Avatar
Laguna2 Laguna2 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Reiskirchen, Germany
Posts: 2,015
Send a message via ICQ to Laguna2
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moose View Post
In any case, you're fine with IDE drives so long as they use one of the faster ATA standards. (Not sure, but I think we're at ATA/100 right now?)
ATA-133
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moose View Post
Company that makes components for motherboards. Most onboard video and audio are by them. Let me put it this way: there's a reason I say to stick with true expansion cards by either ATI or NVidia if you intend to play games at all.
Lets say some...
There are bigger players in that game than SiS.
VIA, INTEL, ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moose View Post
AGP, if I'm not mistaken, stands for Advanced Graphics Port. It was designed exclusively to feed higher-end video cards. Unlike PCI (and ISA for that matter), it wasn't designed with any sort of versitility in mind.
AGP stands for Accelerated Graphics Port.
It was not designed exclusively to feed higher-end video cards but is mostly used for it. It can, and is, be used for other purposes too.
Some, even though very little, boards do exist that have more than one AGP-Slot mostly used by RAID-Controllers.
AGP is outdated and in all current chipsets it has been replaced by the PCI-e standard.

Regarding floppy drives. Some newer chipsets (like the Intel® 945GT) do not even more support it.

Regardiung your old Harddisks.
SATA is the future, and the future is already here.
If you have some old IDE drives that you want to use on your new computer, then get a board that still supports P-ATA. If you don't care, then don't and get a new SATA drive.

PATA is the newly used description for the old (Parallel-)ATA technology to easier differentiate it from the new (Serial-)ATA. And no, they are not compatible. SATA uses these new little (often orange) connectors that you find on decent boards.
__________________
"Who does not know anything, must believe everything."
Baroness Marie von Ebner-Eschenbach
1830-1916
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 19-February-2007, 11:57 AM
Laguna2's Avatar
Laguna2 Laguna2 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Reiskirchen, Germany
Posts: 2,015
Send a message via ICQ to Laguna2
Default

For your sockets question.
INTEL:
Socket 478:
For the Pentium 4 and Mobile Pentium 4 as well as the P4 based Celeron/Celeron D types.

Was followed by Socket 775:
Also known ad LGA 775 or Socket T.
For the new P4 with Prescott-, Prescott-2M-, Smithfield- and Gallatin-core.
Gallatin-core only for the EE types (low energy consuption) and
The Smithfield-core only for the Dual-Core CPUs.
Processors:
Intel Pentium 4
Intel Pentium 4 EE
Intel Pentium D
Intel Pentium EE
Intel Celeron
Intel Celeron D
Core 2 Duo/ Core 2 Duo EE

AMD:
Socket A / Socket 462 (outdated)
For the old 32-bit Athlon, Duron, AthlonXP and Sempron Processors.
These Processors are no longer sold by AMD but there are still Socket A boards for the GeodeNX1500 Processor which uses only 6W and is used for
cashpoints and other low performance purposes.

Socket 754 (outdated but still used for cheap Semprons and the Turion 64 Mobile Processor)
For the old (no longer sold) single Channel Athlon 64 Processors and the based upon Semprons.

Socket 939 (outdated but still sold)
For the Dual-Channel Athlon 64 Processors (And the Dual-Channel Semprons), first X2 Versions and the Opteron 1XX series.
Athlon 64, Athlon 64 FX, Athlon 64 X2, Opteron 1XX Serie

Socket 940 (for Servers and Workstations)
Athlon 64 FX, Opteron Serie 2XX

Socket AM2
latest Athlon 64, Atholn 64 X2, Athlon 64 FX and Semprons Revision F and newer.

Socket F
(for Servers and Workstations)
For the latest Opteron and future AthlonFX processors.
__________________
"Who does not know anything, must believe everything."
Baroness Marie von Ebner-Eschenbach
1830-1916
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Contact Lost With Mars Global Surveyor Fraser Universe Today Story Comments 8 14-November-2006 10:17 AM
motherboard Silent Knight Off-Topic Babbling 11 01-February-2005 01:27 AM
Career Options in Astronomy/Physics samoth Questions and Answers 16 13-April-2004 10:29 PM
From NASA: Panel submits Hubble servicing options The Bad Astronomer Space Exploration 12 09-December-2003 12:50 PM


All times are GMT. The time now is 03:45 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.0.0
©  2006 Bad Astronomy and Universe Today