This just struck me. I should have seen this and commented on this earlier.

Leonidas only had 300 Spartans to begin with. He never, at any point, sent Spartans home from Thermopylae. He sent Greeks from other city-states. He arrived with 300 Spartans, 300 Spartans stayed, and 300 Spartans died.

They didn't stay to buy time for Sparta to evacuate. Sparta never evacuated. Leondias left approx. 9,000 hoplites to defend Sparta should it come to that. They would NEVER have left Sparta. They would have relished the chance to die in her defence. There is evidence the 9,000 who stayed were entirely unsatisfied at having been left behind. The idea of Sparta evacuating is absurd. They would have welcomed a battle like you and I would welcome a steak dinner. There is even evidence that the women were trained in a warrior cult much similar to the men, and there are documented accounts of Spartans princesses leading all-female phalanxes into battle.

Leonidas bought time for Athens to evacuate, not Sparta. Themistocles, after his stunning naval victory, headed to Athens and evacuated her citizens, moving them temporarily to Salamis. Xerxes reached Athens, and found her empty save a few preists and priestesses who stayed at the Parthenon. He burned an empty Athens to the ground, not Sparta.

Sorry I missed this initially. I highly recommend you do some more intensive research

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"I have this theory that the Apollo missions were faked when NASA found out that general relativity was wrong because the Earth was expanding due to the Sun's iron core being influenced by magnetic waves from the electric universe after being perturbed by Planet X and thereby causing global warming. Where should I start a thread about this?" ~ ToSeek

"Those are the people that wonder how a thermos knows whether to keep something hot or keep something cold." ~ NeoWatcher

That's the kind of dumbing down that Hollywood always does.
(Sparta.... Athens... too many names to keep track of. Let's just scratch Athens.)

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"A witty saying proves nothing" Voltaire.
"All your bias are belong to us" Ara Pacis.

I haven't seen the movie yet (I can't until this weekend). Does the movie state that Sparta was evacuated, or is it (as I assumed) an error on the part of the OP?

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"I have this theory that the Apollo missions were faked when NASA found out that general relativity was wrong because the Earth was expanding due to the Sun's iron core being influenced by magnetic waves from the electric universe after being perturbed by Planet X and thereby causing global warming. Where should I start a thread about this?" ~ ToSeek

"Those are the people that wonder how a thermos knows whether to keep something hot or keep something cold." ~ NeoWatcher

I don't know either. I assumed you did.

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"A witty saying proves nothing" Voltaire.
"All your bias are belong to us" Ara Pacis.

Hum,
i seem to recall that the battle occurred just after A Spartan state Holyday.
The 300 were only the kings personal body guard.

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`Irony` actually does mean `metal like`...

Perhaps in a loose, cultural sense. Politically, I'm afraid Greece never did unite.

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"A witty saying proves nothing" Voltaire.
"All your bias are belong to us" Ara Pacis.

Sort of. They were also weeded out by Leonidas' insistence that only hoplites who had sired were allowed to come. He didn't want any familie's bloodline to die at Thermopylae. But you're correct - they wouldn't leave until after thier festival

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"I have this theory that the Apollo missions were faked when NASA found out that general relativity was wrong because the Earth was expanding due to the Sun's iron core being influenced by magnetic waves from the electric universe after being perturbed by Planet X and thereby causing global warming. Where should I start a thread about this?" ~ ToSeek

"Those are the people that wonder how a thermos knows whether to keep something hot or keep something cold." ~ NeoWatcher

Uh-oh

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"I have this theory that the Apollo missions were faked when NASA found out that general relativity was wrong because the Earth was expanding due to the Sun's iron core being influenced by magnetic waves from the electric universe after being perturbed by Planet X and thereby causing global warming. Where should I start a thread about this?" ~ ToSeek

"Those are the people that wonder how a thermos knows whether to keep something hot or keep something cold." ~ NeoWatcher

No, Sparta was not evacuated nor was there even talk of evacuation. I wonder if the OP meant that some portion of the Spartans at Thermopylae were "evacuated"?

The 300 were the Royal Bodyguard. The entire Greek force at Thermopylae was between 7,000 and 8,000 strong. The plan was to hold Thermopylae long enough that the Persian fleet would sail into the Euboean Channel where their numerical advantage would count for little.

The Spartans easily repulsed attacks on the Middle Gate two days in a row. Then Ephialtes led a force of Immortals (Persian Royal Bodyguard) to one of the side gates and routed the Phocians guarding it. The Spartans held the Middle Gate anyway but sent or allowed many of the Greek forces to retreat leaving the Spartan Royal Bodyguard, Some Thebans and some Thespians. They made their stand on a hill near the middle gate. The Spartans and maybe the Thespians were killed to a man, the Thebans asked for quarter (I do not know if they received it).

Once Thermopylae fell, the Greek Fleet disengaged and helped Evacuate Athens to Salamis (and Aegina and Troezen). Some few stayed in Athens where the Persian army destroyed them and pillaged Athens. Back in Pelloponnisia , the Spartans built fortifications across the Isthmus of Corinth in preparation for the further invasion of the Persian Army.

The next stage of the war took place in Salamis. The Athenian navy succeeded in breaking the Persian navy, which then retreated, first to Phaleron and then back to the Hellespont. The Persian army could only be supplied by the navy, so this signaled an end to the invasion (but not the war).

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Hwæt! We Gardena in geardagum,
þeodcyninga, þrym gefrunon,
hu ða æþelingas ellen fremedon.

Well by golly, I'm going to the library to look this stuff up now. I would love to believe wikipedia, but I know better.

Still, Barring all of the historical and political issues, I'm not sure it was a good movie. Lush, but kind of a thin plot. If you're gonna dramatize history, go all the way and make up some more interesting stuff. Also, I didn't really like the fight choreography.

I disagree. If you're going to dramatize history, bloody well dramatize history. If you're going to make up a story, make up a story. Don't go halfway.

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Gillian

"Now everyone was giving her that kind of look UFOlogists get when they suddenly say, 'Hey, if you shade your eyes you can see it is just a flock of geese after all.'"

"You can't erase icing."

"I can't believe it doesn't work! I found it on the internet, man!"

To clear up a few things about the the film, (should be spoiler free):

A messenger of Xerxes came to Sparta to inform them that Xerxes wanted tribute. He was refused, thus, Leonidis basically escalated the conflict. TO be fair, there was really not much he could have done differently. (In the film)

The priests who spoke for the Oracle told him that they would not endorse a war due to the coming August Festival, and that it would be a violation of Spartan Law to engage Xerxes without their approval.

Leonidis went for a "stroll" with a contingent of 300 personal bodyguards, all of whom had sons to carry on the family name.

There was not talk, or even sign, of Sparta being evacuated. There was no mention of Athens being evacuated.

I was also rather impressed with the fight choreography. Not as impressed as I was with Troy, but it was still very good.

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I'm not evil.
An evil person would do the things I think up.

I kind of thought that was what I was saying. Why would you disagree?

I haven't seen the movie but from what I've heard it's very much like Sin City in that it's almost literal filming of the graphic novel.

There was a fascinating review by [neocon historian] Victor Davis Hanson:

Basically he argues that the very unreality of the film serves a greater realism:

(It's actually a really good review and it's pretty short)

This reminds me of my favourite classroom exchange (in a greek history class). I think it's appropriate for the board...
Professor: Okay, any questions.
Student #1: So were they, like, gay?
Professor: Uh... well they weren't homosexual in the contemporary definition of the word. It was a relationship similar to what we'd call pederastry: between an older man and a younger boy.
Student #2: Yeah it said in the textbook that they'd have sex between the thighs.
Professor: Yes...
Student #2: How does that work?
Professor: Uh. ... The only answer I can give is someday... when you're married... you can try it with your husband.
Student #3: Is that why they used so much olive oil?
Professor: Moving on...

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When I die I want to go peacefully in my sleep, like my grandfather. Not screaming in terror, like his passengers.

lol,anymore and that woiuld have posted on a different site.

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If it's just us, it seems like an awful waste of space.
Contact Carl Sagan

http://davidsuniverse.wordpress.com/

My goodness, I make a passing reference to Athenian "boy-lovers" and everyone fixates on it.

Freud was right.

There was a bit involving, shall we say, pantomime that I left out.

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When I die I want to go peacefully in my sleep, like my grandfather. Not screaming in terror, like his passengers.

Bleah! No, no, he isn't!

I'm sorry; earlier, it seemed to me that you were advocating changing the history of things to make a better story, which I'm not. Are we on the same page after all?

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Gillian

"Now everyone was giving her that kind of look UFOlogists get when they suddenly say, 'Hey, if you shade your eyes you can see it is just a flock of geese after all.'"

"You can't erase icing."

"I can't believe it doesn't work! I found it on the internet, man!"

Everything you say here makes me more curious about this movie.

It still not showing here in my country , but I would want to watch as soon as its open here.

.

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Jean
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"The important thing is not to stop questioning. Curiosity has its own reason for existing." - Albert Einstein

"The good life is inspired by love and guided by knowledge " - Bertrand Russell

My post comes from knowledge gleaned from books, not Wikipedia. Check out A History of Greece, N.G.L. Hammond and A History of The Ancient World, Chester G. Starr for a good start. I also leafed through some Osprey publications, specifically The Greek and Persian Wars 500-322 BC, The Spartan Army and The Persian Army 560-330 BC. For more direct sources, there are Herodotus and Xenophon.

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Hwæt! We Gardena in geardagum,
þeodcyninga, þrym gefrunon,
hu ða æþelingas ellen fremedon.

Ah yes, the B ark. Everybody takes them for granted don't they?

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Don of Borg - Cool, Calm, Collective.

"Within the next generation I believe that the world's leaders will discover that infant conditioning and narco-hypnosis are more efficient, as instruments of government, than clubs and prisons, and that the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

Hum,
Xenophons `Hellenica` and his description of the Peloponnesian War, and Caesars `conquest of Gaul` are the two best classical books I've read. Yes, recommended reading.

BTW, i get all my knowledge from the Spartans, (Warning, contains loads of clips and info).

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`Irony` actually does mean `metal like`...

Well, he had to be right about something. Maybe he made great coffee, or something, . . . anything . . .

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Don of Borg - Cool, Calm, Collective.

"Within the next generation I believe that the world's leaders will discover that infant conditioning and narco-hypnosis are more efficient, as instruments of government, than clubs and prisons, and that the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

You may also wish to read Ctesius

About the wiki: As others have noted, it's a great place to start (usually my first stop on any topic), but it's ultra basic, and taken as only an initial source, is a great value, but as this topic shows, there is phalanx full of info still to be read after checking there

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"I have this theory that the Apollo missions were faked when NASA found out that general relativity was wrong because the Earth was expanding due to the Sun's iron core being influenced by magnetic waves from the electric universe after being perturbed by Planet X and thereby causing global warming. Where should I start a thread about this?" ~ ToSeek

"Those are the people that wonder how a thermos knows whether to keep something hot or keep something cold." ~ NeoWatcher

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"A witty saying proves nothing" Voltaire.
"All your bias are belong to us" Ara Pacis.

Any review from a historical perspective would be negative, I'd imagine.

Edit: I could probably come up with a list of at least 30 or so historical inaccuracies based solely on the trailers, and I haven't even seen the movie yet.

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"I have this theory that the Apollo missions were faked when NASA found out that general relativity was wrong because the Earth was expanding due to the Sun's iron core being influenced by magnetic waves from the electric universe after being perturbed by Planet X and thereby causing global warming. Where should I start a thread about this?" ~ ToSeek

"Those are the people that wonder how a thermos knows whether to keep something hot or keep something cold." ~ NeoWatcher

Apparently, someone in Iran did:The History Channel's 4-minute version:
A brief look at the Battle of Thermopylae
In their 'full' version, the narrator parenthetically mentioned that the Swiss have resisted invasion due to their control of their mountain passes.

Did anyone else catch the hypocrisy in that while the Spartans fought for "Freedom", they enslaved an entire Greek peoples known as the "Helots"? It's like the Confederate states fighting for freedom.

Anyways, the Greeks weren't homosexuals. They took young boys and lovers and to mentor, but the young boys were expected to take a wife. They considered that part of their training in the art of love making.

I often wonder of crossovers. Could Lord Mordor's army from LotR: Return of the King defeat the Spartans? Ring wraiths and trolls would have made short work of them.

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All moderations in purple.

You ain't nobody 'til you've been banned.

Actually, the hyprocrisy goes farther than that. The Persians were one of the most benevolent Empires every. They didn't change local religiouns, customs, culture, or government when they conquered empires. They were downright benevolent compared to most governments.

You can't make that kind of general statement. Many (most?) Greeks were bisexual. Some were exclusively homosexual. Some were exclusively heterosexual. You're really quibbling in verbage, and differences in language.

The Spartans would whoop them and still have time to cook dinner

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"I have this theory that the Apollo missions were faked when NASA found out that general relativity was wrong because the Earth was expanding due to the Sun's iron core being influenced by magnetic waves from the electric universe after being perturbed by Planet X and thereby causing global warming. Where should I start a thread about this?" ~ ToSeek

"Those are the people that wonder how a thermos knows whether to keep something hot or keep something cold." ~ NeoWatcher

That's why they asked for tribute first. No need for war. As long as you paid your taxes, they left you alone.



No, no. I've writen many papers on the ancient greeks. They weren't divided in the sense Americans are divided today. I.E., if you have sex with a man, you're a homosexual, "Different". In the greek world, having sex with a man wasn't considered homosexuality, but one of the many loves and pleasures of their life. Some were exclusively heterosexual, mostly in part, because they couldn't find a male lover etc. etc. The ones that were homosexual, were considered weak and condemed always to be the "Women", well, at least in the eyes of the Spartans.


As if...

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All moderations in purple.

You ain't nobody 'til you've been banned.