I assumed it went without saying that Marie (had it really been Marie) was speaking French. I had been taught that the word at the end of the quote (english "cake") had a different meaning then. But based on Strider1974's post, that's probably wrong.

No, that was Trudeau (Though while it's a 4 letter word in England it was 5 letters en français) Anyway, the brioche thing did have a different meaning then but it wasn't callous.

As Jonah Goldberg says:
"And, in any event, this was not the aloof and snobby statement people think it is. France had the bakery equivalent of the Northeast Dairy Compact at the time (and still does), which required bakers to sell expensive loaves of bread at the same price as the cheap ones if they ran out of the cheap bread."
Now, Goldberg thinks the "Qu'ils mangent de la brioche" statement is problematic for other reasons, but the fact is it doesn't show distaste for the peasantry.

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When I die I want to go peacefully in my sleep, like my grandfather. Not screaming in terror, like his passengers.

The article provides no references or arguments in support of its claim that the saying was actually uttered by the queen Marie-Thérèse. It simply states that it was probably her, and then proceeds to concoct an elaborate reinterpretation of the quote, which just so happens to also be more flattering to the aristocrats.

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"All your bias are belong to us." Ara Pacis
"A witty saying proves nothing." Voltaire

Well, it doesn't really matter who exactly said just that it wasn't Marie Antoinette. Marie-Thérèse is just really a place holder for any Great Princess, it doesn't change his point one iota if it was another queen (or if, as he says, Rosseau just made it up).

I'm also a little puzzled at your claim that Goldberg's interpretation is "more flattering to the aristocrats". He's vicious against her saying that her policy put in place would "crush the bakeries financially, and hence make starvation even worse." He says it would "screw things up by creating "compassionate" schemes that only make things worse for the poor."

These are not the words of a man carrying water for the French aristocracy.

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When I die I want to go peacefully in my sleep, like my grandfather. Not screaming in terror, like his passengers.

We must not have read the same article:

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"All your bias are belong to us." Ara Pacis
"A witty saying proves nothing." Voltaire

Well you said that the Goldberg's interpretation of the quote was more "just so happens to also be more flattering to the aristocrats." But the quotes you cite are about Marie Antoinette which has nothing to do with "Let them eat cake" quote as she didn't say that. They were quotes about Marie Antoinette's personality and (imho) largely correct. No matter what your political beliefs you have to feel sorry for her, engaged as a child, sent away to a foreign country and then, of course, killed there. (As for the other one Goldberg does not mean "well-intentioned liberal gitchy-gooeyness" in a good way).

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When I die I want to go peacefully in my sleep, like my grandfather. Not screaming in terror, like his passengers.

There's a part about Marie-Thérèse in the bit I quoted, and Marie Antoinette was an aristocrat, too.

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"All your bias are belong to us." Ara Pacis
"A witty saying proves nothing." Voltaire

I don't think that Nero's fiddling has ever had anything to do with musical instruments. Instead, 'fiddling' means more like 'fidgeting'; that is, making only ineffectual actions.

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plenty of woo, at the hotel hoagaland...

Oh, no. He considered himself a great artist, and according to legend, he wrote poetry. In fact, his last words were, "What an artist dies in me!"

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Gillian

"Now everyone was giving her that kind of look UFOlogists get when they suddenly say, 'Hey, if you shade your eyes you can see it is just a flock of geese after all.'"

"You can't erase icing."

"I can't believe it doesn't work! I found it on the internet, man!"

I think he was supposed to have played the lyre or some such. It's only in modern times that "fiddling" has been substituted.

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Cum catapultae proscribeantur tum soli proscripti catapultas habeant.

Well, yes, absolutely. I just meant that they didn't mean "dithering." Nero was many things, but a ditherer he was not.

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Gillian

"Now everyone was giving her that kind of look UFOlogists get when they suddenly say, 'Hey, if you shade your eyes you can see it is just a flock of geese after all.'"

"You can't erase icing."

"I can't believe it doesn't work! I found it on the internet, man!"

Maybe it was "zithering"...

the whole link was utterly ridiculous. It upset me at first, then I laughed; now I'm upset thinking that uneducated people will read it and believe any of it at all.



One more thing, people that become a rank in the military or politics after completing an accomplisment are always called by their highest rank. For instance President Bush may have said something really stupid in 1998 before being elected, but we will always say President Bush said that.

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"I will do my best to understand and explain the universe from big to small without invoking miracles, unrepeatable events, or divine intervention. In place of those things I will use observations, mathematics, and science."


-Cross
My travel blog

Some of my Astrophotography


Those that lack education have a hard time understanding its value. - Cross

Everything you say here was already refuted in my post above.

No explaination of why you think it's ridiculous of course.

Just to summerize the article:
1. Marie-Antoinette did not say "Qu'ils mangent de la brioche." (which was the main reason I linked to it).
2. Brioche is expensive bread.
3. There was a law that French bakeries had to sell more expensive bread to people at the same cost as normal bread if they had run out of it.
4. Therefore, saying "Qu'ils mangent de la brioche" does not have the conventional sneering disinterest the phrase has come to represent (which was the second reason I linked to that).
5. Goldberg, however, thinks this attitude is equally bad because it ignores economic reality.
6. Goldberg launches into a discussion on modern politics (which I did not talk about because of the board ban on politics).
Parts 1-4 are the most relavant here because they're responding to claims made in the orginal link and in the article. I don't think any of them are "utterly ridiculous" though if people want to argue on the historical merit of them that's a debate that can be had. Part 5 is relavant to the people who think that Goldberg is defending the French aristocracy. Part 6 is not relevant to this board (maybe on FWIW, if that's still around).

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When I die I want to go peacefully in my sleep, like my grandfather. Not screaming in terror, like his passengers.

1. Marie-Antoinette did not say "Qu'ils mangent de la brioche." (which was the main reason I linked to it).
Which I think is well established on this thread
2. Brioche is expensive bread.
Also well established, though I had claimed that cake (brioche) had more than one meaning then. It appears I was incorrect.
3. There was a law that French bakeries had to sell more expensive bread to people at the same cost as normal bread if they had run out of it.
This is the part that is unreferenced, and is the crux of the comparison to the political argument made later. (Besides, if the person who said it wasn't French, as many links suggest, then French law is irrelevant.)
4. Therefore, saying "Qu'ils mangent de la brioche" does not have the conventional sneering disinterest the phrase has come to represent (which was the second reason I linked to that).
Again, dependant on point 3.
5. Goldberg, however, thinks this attitude is equally bad because it ignores economic reality.
6. Goldberg launches into a discussion on modern politics I suspect this is the part that offends some here.

"Nero played lyre while Rome burned," just doesn't have the same ring

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PW -- Plant Whisperer

No, they are not. Learn to read.

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"All your bias are belong to us." Ara Pacis
"A witty saying proves nothing." Voltaire

I've Actually Considered Incorporating Thiis Concept, Into My Book at Some Point ...

Upon The Graduation of a New Class of Cadets, a Message Is Sent to The Fuuture Enquiring About Each Newly-Minted Officer's Deeds and Eventual Rank, So That Those Who Are Destiined for Greatness, are Better Helped Along their Path ...

In The Case of One Man, When The Call is Made to The Later Chief of Staff, Guess WHO Answers The Phone?

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If you Ignore YOUR Rights, they Will go away.

So did he game the system by becoming CoS by telling his former teachers he would become CoS without actually b