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  #91 (permalink)  
Old 17-May-2007, 07:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Fazor View Post
But what irks me is when a story is designed to sound more significant than it actually is. That's the "unsensational sensationalism". Big pet peeve of mine.
I'll agree with that, but, the "so what" article that specifies somebody specific is doing something which is obviously done for free press coverage is even worse.
One example that I can think of at the top of my head is the bikini coffee house. It has appeared on every single news outlet that I look at. My entire life, I have heard at one time or another about some place going topless. So, if topless has gotten passe, then why is a bikini top news?
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  #92 (permalink)  
Old 17-May-2007, 07:56 PM
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So, if topless has gotten passe, then why is a bikini top news?
Because nothing else happened today?
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  #93 (permalink)  
Old 17-May-2007, 07:57 PM
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So, if topless has gotten passe, then why is a bikini top news?
Because nothing else happened today?
All week?
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  #94 (permalink)  
Old 17-May-2007, 08:05 PM
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Don't ask me, I didn't report it.
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  #95 (permalink)  
Old 17-May-2007, 08:10 PM
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Okay, how 'bout this one:

Not Guilty Plea Entered

In case you haven't noticed, our court systems are set up to provide judges and lawyers with easy money...not to determine who did what. There is not a sitting judge in the US that will accept a guilty-plea at arraingment. None. No matter how self-evident the guilt; no matter how willing to confess the accused is, no judge will not accept a guilty-plea, because to do so would deprive the prosecuter and defense attorney of their free money, and that will never happen as long as all judges are former lawyers

That story--no matter who the defendent is--is positively, absolutely non-news. They may as well report that the sun came up yesterday.
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  #96 (permalink)  
Old 17-May-2007, 08:14 PM
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Sinking is the act of becoming sunk. Taking on Water is how that occurs. Sometimes it takes a while, some times it happens very rapidly. In either case, a vessel that's taking on water is definitely sinking.

What I'm curious about is; why is that vessel out in the open ocean with passengers - it's a flippin' riverboat. No keel to speak of...
It's not exactly a riverboat, nor is it really designed for othe open ocean. It runs half the year in the Columbia River and the other half in the Inside Passage and other sheltered waters in Alaska. At one time they offered a cruise that included the passage from the Columbia to Seattle. But for the actual ocean leg of that, from Astoria to Neah Bay, the passengers had to go by bus.

I don't know what the hull form looks like but I know it draws considerably more water than a real riverboat and may have a decent keel. It's just made to LOOK like a riverboat. At least they do use the paddlewheel for propulsion.

We'll have to agree to disagree about the "sinking" aspect. As far as I'm concerned the news folks just did their usual job of sensationalizing. As others have pointed out, "taking on water" does not necessarily put a vessel in danger of sinking.
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  #97 (permalink)  
Old 17-May-2007, 08:44 PM
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Along with the "so-what" stories, there are the stories that are just plain wrong.
It's getting more common lately with reporters only reporting on what people say, and not doing any research into whether or not that person is full of it, nor, by asking that person any questions.
This one for example:
Wishful inking may be a record (single session of tattoing)
The entire article works on "they say", "it may be", "the decided that". No where in the article did they mention anything about a confirmation.

It was reported before (or while?) the attempt, the above link was both front page, and major metro story.
They don't say if the ACS or IRSA was involved, even though they were the fundraising recipients.

And at $900 raised, it was a so-what, even with the images of the pain.

Then; front page the next day, this one:
They're going to get needled for this miscue
They learned from the reporter that they didn't reach the record. How much says the reporter new it the day before the first article? Even if that were not true, then why was there no confirmation before printing the first article?
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  #98 (permalink)  
Old 17-May-2007, 09:12 PM
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There is not a sitting judge in the US that will accept a guilty-plea at arraignment. None. Where do you get your info on this Peter? People plead guilty at arraignment all the time. Do a search on google and you'll get lots of hits. Of course, if you take just the front-page higher-profile cases, then the court will not accept the guilty pleas as often. This isn't to pad their pockets, it's to protect them from future "defendant was coerced into plea" cases. But look at assaults, burglary, domestic violence, drug charges, drunk driving charges, etc. etc. and you'll find lots of guilty pleas at arraignment.
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  #99 (permalink)  
Old 18-May-2007, 04:26 PM
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There is not a sitting judge in the US that will accept a guilty-plea at arraignment. None. Where do you get your info on this Peter?
One friend of mine tried to enter a guilty plea to a drunk-driving charge

Anyway, I don't get my information about our courts from watching TV
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  #100 (permalink)  
Old 18-May-2007, 07:22 PM
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One friend of mine tried to enter a guilty plea to a drunk-driving charge And they wouldn't accept it? I've never heard of them not accepting a guilty plea to that. Must be one heck of a judge, advice would be to do everything you can to not have to face him.
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  #101 (permalink)  
Old 19-May-2007, 06:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
It's not exactly a riverboat, nor is it really designed for othe open ocean. It runs half the year in the Columbia River and the other half in the Inside Passage and other sheltered waters in Alaska. At one time they offered a cruise that included the passage from the Columbia to Seattle. But for the actual ocean leg of that, from Astoria to Neah Bay, the passengers had to go by bus.
Must be a different boat than I'm thinking of, then - but it sure looks like her. had an 8 foot draft - pretty much across the beam.

Quote:
We'll have to agree to disagree about the "sinking" aspect. As far as I'm concerned the news folks just did their usual job of sensationalizing. As others have pointed out, "taking on water" does not necessarily put a vessel in danger of sinking.
we definitely disagree - any device that fails, even partly, in its basic design philosopy, is that much closer to failure. Taking on water - that is, allowing water to go where it's not designed to be, in a boat/ship, most definitely *IS* sinking. It's not "in danger of sinking". It's *sinking*. Now, is it in danger of becoming sunk ? That's a different matter - but, if something isn't done about the taking on of water, the answer is 'yes'. Drawing the difference between the action and the result, y'see.
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  #102 (permalink)  
Old 20-May-2007, 02:07 AM
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8 foot draft may be about right -- I looked on their web site but they don't list the draft. It's definitely not designed for extended open-ocean cruising.

Part of the basic design philosophy for any vessel -- any engineering project, for that matter -- is to handle predictable failures without endangering life or the vessel itself. It's designed with pumps and at least some compartmentalization. Taking on water may cause it to settle a bit -- you can call that sinking if you like -- but does not necessarily endanger survival of the vessel or occupants. Something IS being done -- doors are closed, pumps are started, help is called. I don't think the Empress was ever in danger of becoming sunk -- but that's what the media deliberately implied.

All that said, I don't know as I'd travel on the Empress. When we did the Columbia on the Queen of the West, we had to alter our inteirnerary because the Empress had damaged a lock gate. (Supposedly the lock operator's fault.) And a couple of days later we heard that it was aground in the river. The incident in Alaska was its third or fourth grounding, although the most serious.
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  #103 (permalink)  
Old 20-May-2007, 08:23 PM
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I'd agree. If you plead guilty, that's pretty much the worst, and there's no judge that wouldn't accept that plea. Because you're being honest, they might reduce the sentance to the minimum allowable by law.

Having said that, it's time to watch "The Longest Yard" with Adam Sandler again...
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  #104 (permalink)  
Old 21-May-2007, 09:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Peter Wilson View Post
... because to do so would deprive the prosecuter and defense attorney of their free money, ...
Actually, on a criminal case, what the prosecutor want is a guilty verdict, no matter how it's obtained, as it's the number of guilty verdicts that gets him promoted.
This is why you see charge-bargaining, the prosecutor bargains with the defense on which charge they're willing to enter a guilty plea for.

This is why you see cases of sexually assaulted infants(mandatory long imprisonment, difficult to prove and get a conviction on) where the charge ends up being incest(misdemeanor slap on wrist, enter a guilty plea and you're free to go back and continue) because that's what will guarantee the prosecutor a guilty verdict.

(That specific loophole isn't available in all states and several which had it previously has closed it)
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  #105 (permalink)  
Old 21-May-2007, 02:17 PM
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One friend of mine tried to enter a guilty plea to a drunk-driving charge
So you come to a conclusion as to why?
I would like to know some other details. It might be a matter of sentencing, or how the decision can be determined, or some other intricate little fact.

On one jury that I served on, we were brought through the courtroom into the jury room. We sat there for about an hour or so before the judge came in.
She said that the defendent wanted to plead not guilty, and she was getting indications that he might plead guilty. So she brought the jury through the courtroom to show the gravity of the situation. She said this works quite often.
In our case this was particularly good because of the gruesome nature of the case.
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  #106 (permalink)  
Old 24-May-2007, 08:07 PM
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This pretty well sums up my opinion of the local TV news.
Pearls
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  #107 (permalink)  
Old 24-May-2007, 08:14 PM
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This pretty well sums up my opinion of the local TV news.
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Ok; now explain the people that write for them...
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  #108 (permalink)  
Old 24-May-2007, 08:33 PM
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The typos are the least of the problem. The systematic bias may be the worst. The rest is just a combination of laziness stupidity and gross incompetence.
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  #109 (permalink)  
Old 24-May-2007, 09:46 PM
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Ok; now explain the people that write for them...
Those were the ones the rejected for not being smart enough to read the teleprompters.
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