See, now, that's exactly the kind of attitude I'm talking about. Don't start throwing things like that around, just because someone disagrees with you. It does not make anyone more likely to take your argument seriously if you're going to call them monsters everytime you don't like what they express.

__________________
"If this were play'd upon a stage now, I could condemn it as an improbable fiction."
Shakespeare, Twelfth Night
Illuminati's Razor-The most complicatedly evil answer is usually the most correct answer. - Fazor
"Every book is a children's book if the kid can read." - Mitch Hedberg
"Distance doesn’t matter much in space, where if you just start a thing off with the right kind of shove, sooner or later it will get where you want it to go." -Frederik Pohl, Mining the Oort

I'm not saying this lady was not wrong.

I'm not saying she shouldn't pay a price.

The problem is that the very wrongness has paid the price- Never again will her child breathe, cry, laugh...

The price paid was very severe. She has been already punished. The debt is more than paid.

Well, a bunch of you sure seem to be forgetting it. Call it a reminder.

It isn't because you disagree- It is because you are wrong.

You don't like being wrong? Tough. Guess what. People get wrong sometimes.

That mother got wrong. Now her child is gone, dead, deceaced. Her punishment has already been dished out.

If you think losing a child, your flesh and blood, your pride and joy is not severe enough punishment - then I said that to remind you.

I'm outta this thread. The cruelty's expressed by the self rightious are driving me nuts.

No matter what the source of your anger, still, try not to resort to making negative assertions about people on this board. This isn't a place for hateful messages.

And there will be plenty of times in life that people will say far worse things to your face than "I disagree". Do you respond the same way to them?

__________________
"If this were play'd upon a stage now, I could condemn it as an improbable fiction."
Shakespeare, Twelfth Night
Illuminati's Razor-The most complicatedly evil answer is usually the most correct answer. - Fazor
"Every book is a children's book if the kid can read." - Mitch Hedberg
"Distance doesn’t matter much in space, where if you just start a thing off with the right kind of shove, sooner or later it will get where you want it to go." -Frederik Pohl, Mining the Oort

I am not one of "you", because I already stopped discussing the case. At the moment, the only action I'm addressing is what's being said right here.

You can say someone's wrong without accusing them of cruely or sadism. You can disagree without accusation.

You need to stop resorting to emotion.

__________________
"If this were play'd upon a stage now, I could condemn it as an improbable fiction."
Shakespeare, Twelfth Night
Illuminati's Razor-The most complicatedly evil answer is usually the most correct answer. - Fazor
"Every book is a children's book if the kid can read." - Mitch Hedberg
"Distance doesn’t matter much in space, where if you just start a thing off with the right kind of shove, sooner or later it will get where you want it to go." -Frederik Pohl, Mining the Oort

I AM trying. But how far can you go and still be nice?

It's not a nice topic.

That woman was wrong too. And someone died.

It must be nice to be wrong and not have someone die...

But in this case, that same wrongness is killing the mother over and over again- it's double, maybe triple jeopardy.

I'm not discounting what she did- I'm saying it was punished already.

I'm not saying let drunk drivers go- that it was a dumb mistake- NO, they knew the consequences already. They have not yet been punished. Comparing the two is apples to oranges.

I'm not saying negligence is ok- I'm saying that sometimes the crime punishes itself. To take it further is cruelty.

Sometimes people need to hear it.

What I have said is also quite logical.

What you have said is emotional invective. No one needs to hear insults.

This isn't about the case, it's about behaving like a civilized human being. I don't care if they said it's okay to eat people, AD HOMS ARE WRONG. Period.

__________________
"If this were play'd upon a stage now, I could condemn it as an improbable fiction."
Shakespeare, Twelfth Night
Illuminati's Razor-The most complicatedly evil answer is usually the most correct answer. - Fazor
"Every book is a children's book if the kid can read." - Mitch Hedberg
"Distance doesn’t matter much in space, where if you just start a thing off with the right kind of shove, sooner or later it will get where you want it to go." -Frederik Pohl, Mining the Oort

Well, if you are not going to discuss the thread- take the rest to PM then.

In the meantime, I seem to be unable to discuss this case in the manner that you want me to.

I'm trying to let the posts stand for themselves and get OUT of the thread now. All statements have been made- All points have been clarified.

I'm not going to learn your method of 'perfect debate' today...

And I'm certainly not going to change my mind one bit on this issue...

So stop replying to my posts in this thread and let me stay out of it before I'm granted forced vacation.

Leaving your infant alone in the bath while you shoe-shop online is hardly an innocent activity. Anyone with an ounce of sense should know that dire consequences are possible. I'm sure the woman is grieving, but I have to admit, I don't have a lot of sympathy for her, because she should have known not to do that. I was told to take responsibility for my own actions; the responsibilty for this act of negligence is to suffer legal consequences.

__________________
Gillian

"Now everyone was giving her that kind of look UFOlogists get when they suddenly say, 'Hey, if you shade your eyes you can see it is just a flock of geese after all.'"

"You can't erase icing."

"I can't believe it doesn't work! I found it on the internet, man!"

It's also the way that BAUT Forum rules want you to.
This will also be my last post on this thread.

__________________
"If this were play'd upon a stage now, I could condemn it as an improbable fiction."
Shakespeare, Twelfth Night
Illuminati's Razor-The most complicatedly evil answer is usually the most correct answer. - Fazor
"Every book is a children's book if the kid can read." - Mitch Hedberg
"Distance doesn’t matter much in space, where if you just start a thing off with the right kind of shove, sooner or later it will get where you want it to go." -Frederik Pohl, Mining the Oort

Oh? I certainly remember an acknowledgment when she took you off her ignore list after hearing about your apology. I doubt I would have been as forgiving under the circumstances. As for attitude, I'm reminded of a line about not throwing stones . . . .

__________________
I say there is an invisible elf in my backyard. How do you prove that I am wrong?

Disclaimer: Avatar is not an official NASA image and does not imply any specific interplanetary or interstellar capability.

The Leif Ericson Cruiser

At the very least, it was extreme negligence. However, from the article, it is not clear that it was just an accident. Her mother stated she had concerns about her daughter's state of mind. From the article:

"Last November, I [the mother] called Dakota County ... and said I am so scared for those children because my daughter is suffering from postpartum depression," Koberoski told the newspaper. "I still do not know the details. It is so sad. I loved that child so much. I love my daughter."

__________________
I say there is an invisible elf in my backyard. How do you prove that I am wrong?

Disclaimer: Avatar is not an official NASA image and does not imply any specific interplanetary or interstellar capability.

The Leif Ericson Cruiser

OK, Neverfly has informed me by PM that he's taking some time off from this thread to chill out. I recommend we all do the same.

End transmission.

__________________
"If this were play'd upon a stage now, I could condemn it as an improbable fiction."
Shakespeare, Twelfth Night
Illuminati's Razor-The most complicatedly evil answer is usually the most correct answer. - Fazor
"Every book is a children's book if the kid can read." - Mitch Hedberg
"Distance doesn’t matter much in space, where if you just start a thing off with the right kind of shove, sooner or later it will get where you want it to go." -Frederik Pohl, Mining the Oort

Yes, I ran into the same attitude with the kid that killed my nephew. There were two people killed and one other person badly injured because a kid who was supposed to be a designated driver had been drinking and drove at high speed while others were screaming at him to slow down. After the fact, there were comments of the sort that this poor young fellow surely felt very bad about what he had done, and he shouldn't have his life disrupted with further punishment for something he already felt badly about. It wasn't a "deliberate" killing, they said, just an "accident." Sound familiar?

As it turns out, he had a history of similar behavior, and it finally caught up with him. He also received a much longer sentence for the injury than the two deaths (which still mystifies me).

Now, it's possible that in this case this was a completely exceptional event. No doubt she will have a defense, and it may well turn out that they decide not to put her in prison. At the other end of the scale, there might be some strong hints that it wasn't an accident at all, but this is as much as prosecution thinks they can prove.

__________________
I say there is an invisible elf in my backyard. How do you prove that I am wrong?

Disclaimer: Avatar is not an official NASA image and does not imply any specific interplanetary or interstellar capability.

The Leif Ericson Cruiser

Probably my last flame out post for BAUT.

And I was given quite a speech about 'empathy.' Something you have never shown me. Ever.
Meanwhile- the report says she went to check on the other two children and could hear the kids in the tub.
I'm sure anyone with an ounce of sense never takes their eyes off the road or hands off the wheel while driving. EVER. They always check their blind spot too when switching lanes too.
And if they don't?
Prosecute! Punish them! Punish Punish! Take away all their kids! Excessive bail! Lock 'em up for a decade!

Whatever!
Can you see why I have an attitude? This overwhelming support for the nanny is extremely dangerous to society.

I'm sure anyone with an ounce of sense would also abide by the Safety Regulations on Modern toys.

If any of you post in that Safe Toy thread in favor of the line of reasoning over there- I will never stop laughing at you.
Read the post again. There was no acknowledgement to the apology whatsoever. Instead she added further insult claiming that it was against her better judgement and her therapists advice.
I had to literally calm myself down and just let it go before I posted a flame out at that one.
Then I couldn't help but laugh at it.
Would that be "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone?"
Because that completely supports the case I made.


In this case you describe- I agree that legal action is required. He drove drunk.
He wasn't checking a missed call on a cell phone. He wasn't distracted by a spilled drink suddenly. He drove drunk. Apples and oranges.

Ya know...


Outta idle curiosity...

How do people behave with their kids at SWIMMING POOLS!?!?

Go to the neighborhood Pool and Check it out sometime. A lot of the kids Go there alone even!