both PC's work now, after spending 0€. I'll put a new PSU in this PC, 29.95€.

I'll put an improved gfx card (just to play games better) in the other pc, 89€. Safe bets, given the PC's are functioning now so there's no problem to solve.

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Nicolas, the Radeon X1650 Pro for your Dimension 5100 does indeed gets all of it's power from the PCI-Express slot. As for your Dimension 4600, make sure that the 4-pin Molex power connector cable being used for the Radeon 9800 Pro has no other device plugged into the same cable.

Does your Dimension 4600 have a PCI card installed in the uppermost PCI slot like the one seen in the photo you posted? If so, that could be hindering effective cooling of the Radeon. In my machine, my Sound Blaster X-Fi XtremeMusic PCI card is installed in the bottommost slot (PCI3) to give my video card plenty of room for ventilation. There is also a 120mm fan mounted on the hard drive cage in my Antec Sonata case that keeps air constantly moving over both cards.

I'm under the impression that PSUs with a bottom-mounted 120-140mm fan draws air from inside the computer case and exhausts it out the back of the PSU. My Antec TruePower Trio 650 does this. For my next PC build, using the Antec P180B case which has a bottom PSU chamber, I selected the PC Power & Cooling Turbo-Cool 510 SLI PSU, which has a rear-mounted 80mm fan.

What is the +12V rail rating on the 420W Trust PSU? I can't locate that piece in info. The 450W Cooler Master PSU I mentioned in your other thread has a continuous +12V output of 22A (combining both +12V rails). And PC Power & Cooling's 410W Dell solution has a single +12V rail rated at 23A. Anyway, the Trust unit should be OK for the 9800 Pro.

Hi Alan, thanks for the input.

When I sell the computer, I'll put out the sound card so all PCI slots will be free. (will still have onboard sound)

Re the power towards the radeon9800pro: I'll check it with the new PSU. In the current PSU the situation appears to be as follows: connector that ends in radeon9800 has 3 more empty splits and a split into the P4 which splits into 2 sata, one empty and one onto the HD. In short, also the HD is on the line having the 9800Pro. Now I thought that the Trust PSU had separate sata and molex lines, so I'll just have to check not to put another apparatus on a split of the power line towards the 9800pro. This whole PSU thing is rather new to me, but I think I understand .

As for the X1650pro: great, no PSU connector issues there.

As for the fans: sucking or blowing, as long as it keeps cool .

Re the 12V rail rating of the Trust 5250: I couldn't find it. For the current dell PSU, it's a pathetic 16A. The Trust ain't expensive, so it won't be a 30A PSU. But I assume it can give at least 20. It can't be less than 16, on which the 9800pro runs fine as long as you don't overclock. Amazing.

The X1650pro will run on the 305W PSU of the dimension5100, but it is claimed that this PSU is underrated, which is also amazing since it's coming from Dell . Anyway, loads of people run the X1650pro in the dim5100 and it works fine (you could even buy it like that) evne though the X1650 has 350W recommended, so as long as you don't SLI that PSU should be fine. Funny thing, SLI (crossfire) returning, hadn't seen that technology since the days of the Voodoo².

When I install the new PSU in the 4600, I may make a question, photo and answer session here in case I'm not sure what I'm doing. Installing the X1650pro should be no problem at all. Uninstall X600, PC off, X600 out and X1650 in, PC on, install X1650, done.

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I bought the Trust PW-5250 and foud some info. Comparison with the original Dell PSU:

Dell PSU:
+12 VDC: 14A
+5 VDC: 22A
+3.3 VDC: 18A
–12 VDC: 1A
+5 VFP: 2A
250W, max 200WDC continuous

Trust PSU:
+12 VDC: 16A
+5 VDC: 30A
+3.3 VDC: 20A
–12 VDC: 1A
+5 VFP: not specified; -5V is 1A
420W, nothing specified but appears to be continuous

So at the 12V it's still only 16A (for 29.95€ you shouldn't expect a PSU that resembles a welding machine ), but that's more than 14A anyway and in combination with other loads, it will be able to keep delivering that load. The 5 and 3.3 currents are also significantly larger.

I'll install the PSU in a few weeks time I think, atm I really need the PC so I won't start doing magic inside it .

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I recall you squinting at your screen...
...when the backlight went out...

Yup, and even though that one was out of warranty, Dell gave me a replacement one for free, delivered at home. But I also bought an Acer AL1952 (drooooool) back then, so on the LCD front I'm quite settled .

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Does the Trust PSU have Active Power Factor Correction?

Some more comparisons:

Astec Model SA147-3505 PSU:
+12V: 4.2A maximum
+5V: 18A
+3.3V: 13A
-12V: 0.8A
+5VSB: 0.1A
145W continuous
No Active Power Factor Correction
Very light in weight so it's easy to carry around all day.
Powered a 233MHz Pentium HP box for nine years and still works.

Allied AL-A350ATX REV:B PSU:
+12V: 12A (peak output)
+5 V: 35A
+3.3V: 24A
–12V: 0.8A
+5VSB: 2A
350W maximum
No Active Power Factor Correction
A true waste of refined metal.

Cooler Master Real Power RS-450-ACLY PSU:
+12V1: 18A/12A (peak output (60S)/continuous output)
+12V2: 16A/10A
+5V: 35A/25A
+3.3V: 30A/20A
-12V: 1A
+5 VSB: 2.5A/2A
450W continuous
Active Power Factor Correction
About 47€ after MIR in 2005.
Now powering my nephew's PC.

Antec TruePower Trio 650 PSU:
+12V1: 19A (maximum output)
+12V2: 19A
+12V3: 19A
+5V: 30A
+3.3V: 24A
-12V: 0.8A
+5VSB: 3A
650W maximum
Active Power Factor Correction
About 88€.
In current use.

PC Power & Cooling Turbo-Cool 510 SLI PSU:
+12V: 34A/38A
+5V: 40A
+3.3V: 30A
-12V: 2A
+5VSB: 3A
510W continuous, 650W peak
Active Power Factor Correction
About 140€.
For future PC build (<2008).

OK, make room...

Miller XMT 300 PC
+12V: 375A (peak @ 4,500W)
10,000W maximum
Active Power Factor Correction
About 2,584€ (or about 18 Turbo-Cool PSUs).
Resembles a welding machine.

it says it has "passive power factor correction". What does it mean?

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It means it will correct the power factor but doesn't want to argue or fight about it.

Good dog. Have a cookie.

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Nicolas, I can sympathize. I just had to remove the GeForce MX4000 from my Dell 3000 the other day, as the 250 watt PSU just couldn't take it, and while it didn't shut the system down, I had lot's of little errors in both (shudders) Windows and Linux, all of which were solved by removing the card. It seems the strain on the juice was just enough to wig things out somewhat

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"Those are the people that wonder how a thermos knows whether to keep something hot or keep something cold." ~ NeoWatcher

Instead of removing the gfx card I will change the PSU and keep the card . All set, just need to wait until the PC is less critical (thesis...) and then I'll replace it. I've already bought the new PSU.

PFC seems to be making the complex PC load more like a resistive one, but what does it mean for the PSU in practice? Can it deliver more power, is it more efficient, does it last longer, does it smell nicer?

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Silentpcreview.com has an article by Mike Chin, "Power Supply Fundamentals," that gives a non-technical explanation of Power Factor Correction.

Question regarding windows XP. Thanks to a lovely action (NOT!) by Dell, we have only on one of both Dell PC's a windows Xp installation CD, and that one is specific for the dell 4600. The other PC is a dell 5100, comparable hardware but different mobo to start with. My question: could we use the dell 4600 CD to reinstall XP on the 5100, and would we get into problems with the "microsoft genuine" thing on our copy of XP?

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Solved, Dell sent the CD .

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