Via MSN.com (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20726968/?GT1=10357):

That poor woman was very lucky to live through that. As a side note, take a look at the lovely mug-shots of the perpetrators. Born and bred in a trailer-park, I'd say. Ugh.

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The dose makes the poison--Paracelsus (1493-1541) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paracelsus

I don't know. That's why I'm asking--Noclevername

Intelligence may not be clearly defined, but you know stupid when you see it--Noclevername

Science is a way of thinking much more than it is a body of knowledge--Carl Sagan (1934-1996)

I saw that earlier. Its been a while since I've read anything that's left my jaw hanging open like that.

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The last time I felt a warm fuzzy feeling, I was informed by my doctor that it was just gas.

What's up with all the acronyms/initials---"West Virginia" wouldn't fit in the title?

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*

I wish this weren't a family friendly board...I'd have quite a lot to say about this little gem.

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And just what is it that you have against trailer park folk?

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Brett
Peters Creek, Alaska
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those big city folk tend to think they are better than people that live in trailer parks for some reason.

and why prosecute this as a "hate crime"? i've never understood that. isn't every violent crime like this a "hate crime" by definition? what if it had been a gang of black kids abducting and raping a white woman while calling her a "cracker"? would it then be a "hate crime", or would it be played off in the media as ignorant poor oppressed black people that don't know any better? or would it get covered at all, out of fear of the media being racist in picking what stories they cover?
unfortunately, in this country, we are forced to choose between two kinds of racism. why not just prosecute criminals as criminals, and not based on the color of their skin or what they say while committing the crime or who they target?

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"blacker than the blackest black... times infinity."- Nathan Explosion
The.. Best.. Thread..Ever...

Hate crimes are specific forms of violence within a wider systemic breed of prejudice.

If you rape a woman because you're violent and hormonal, that's one thing.

If you rape a woman because she just happens to be of a different ethnicity or because she's a lesbian, or for ANY reason beyond simply being a target of opportunity, then you're not only committing a crime, you're promoting a criminal form of prejudice. You did it with an agenda to push, and its an agenda the law abiding world decided it won't tolerate.

In this case, its pretty clear the motive was more than a personal vendetta, these animals were perpetuating a very disturbingly evil social platform via commission of these acts. That's something deserving of special consideration during prosecution.

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The last time I felt a warm fuzzy feeling, I was informed by my doctor that it was just gas.

I'm another one who's not so sure it should be a separate crime. While I like the idea of prosecutors having an additional means of getting murderous filth off the streets, I think I'd rather see it as a sentence modifier...and a harsh one at that. And please...allow me the pleasure of closing their cell door and breaking the key off in the lock...if not worse.

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Brett
Peters Creek, Alaska
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Sorry, sarongsong--got lazy while typing, I guess.

I'm awash in acronyms all day long at work, so I get too used to them and use them in everyday-life also.

Ugh, I've worked for the federal government too long!

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The dose makes the poison--Paracelsus (1493-1541) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paracelsus

I don't know. That's why I'm asking--Noclevername

Intelligence may not be clearly defined, but you know stupid when you see it--Noclevername

Science is a way of thinking much more than it is a body of knowledge--Carl Sagan (1934-1996)

I was brought home, from birth, to a trailer park. I lived there until the age of 6, so you might say I was not only born there, but bread there, as well.

I am monitoring this thread intensely, and looking forward into your thoughtful insight into my character. Please, elaborate. I'm waiting.

Impatiently.

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"I have this theory that the Apollo missions were faked when NASA found out that general relativity was wrong because the Earth was expanding due to the Sun's iron core being influenced by magnetic waves from the electric universe after being perturbed by Planet X and thereby causing global warming. Where should I start a thread about this?" ~ ToSeek

"Those are the people that wonder how a thermos knows whether to keep something hot or keep something cold." ~ NeoWatcher

Oh dear.

Serenitude, that is simply an expression I grew up with. I certainly did not mean to offend anyone with it, but I realize that the use of this expression herein was ill-considered and hurtful. I apologize.

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The dose makes the poison--Paracelsus (1493-1541) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paracelsus

I don't know. That's why I'm asking--Noclevername

Intelligence may not be clearly defined, but you know stupid when you see it--Noclevername

Science is a way of thinking much more than it is a body of knowledge--Carl Sagan (1934-1996)

Bah, I know better. It struck me wrong, but I was probably looking to be offended. No harm, no foul, mate. Sorry for the rucus. Please continue...

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"I have this theory that the Apollo missions were faked when NASA found out that general relativity was wrong because the Earth was expanding due to the Sun's iron core being influenced by magnetic waves from the electric universe after being perturbed by Planet X and thereby causing global warming. Where should I start a thread about this?" ~ ToSeek

"Those are the people that wonder how a thermos knows whether to keep something hot or keep something cold." ~ NeoWatcher

Bred

Hehe - looks like you're right

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"I have this theory that the Apollo missions were faked when NASA found out that general relativity was wrong because the Earth was expanding due to the Sun's iron core being influenced by magnetic waves from the electric universe after being perturbed by Planet X and thereby causing global warming. Where should I start a thread about this?" ~ ToSeek

"Those are the people that wonder how a thermos knows whether to keep something hot or keep something cold." ~ NeoWatcher

I don't think as it is usually used it is an attack on an individual. It is meant as an attack on a group of people. I would not pass judgement on an individual only because they grew up or lived in a trailer park. I would wait for the pattern of behaviors to reveal the person'e character - as I would regardless of where they lived.

It just so happens that these kinds of stories have trailer park residents at their core at a rate disproportionate to their representation in the population.

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Don of Borg - Cool, Calm, Collective.

"Within the next generation I believe that the world's leaders will discover that infant conditioning and narco-hypnosis are more efficient, as instruments of government, than clubs and prisons, and that the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

It is entirely possible that the media would downplay the racist aspects of such rape, but if it failed to do so, the black kids could well be charged with a "hate crime". Blacks had been convicted of hate crimes against whites -- just not very often.

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Fiction has to be plausible. Reality is under no such constraint.

That's actually a fair assessment of what is in place. A spade is still a spade, the categorization as a hate crime simply opens the door to a harsher set of sentencing guidelines, provided certain facts about the intentions of the attacker can be proven.

This case is one of the more open and shut examples of it. Thus far, there is precious little doubt that this crime had a racist element to it.

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The last time I felt a warm fuzzy feeling, I was informed by my doctor that it was just gas.

Given the vast racial imbalances in prison populations in many parts of the USA, I guess black people don't need to be hit with an additional "hate crimes" indictment - The system already hits them with a "being Black" aggravating circumstance.

(And it only gets worse when you consider death-sentence statistics.)

As for the "trailer" comments: Perhaps we need another term for poorly-educated, bigoted and ignorant people. Or maybe we should just do away with sweeping generalisations and pigeon-holing of individuals.

Which is hard, I know. I've used the term "trailer trash" more than once, to my shame.

Good deal! Thanks, Serenitude. And for the record, I agree with this quote from Stuart Van Onselen:

Sounds good to me. These six 'people' (and I use the term advisedly) could have come from the city, the country, or the 'burbs. They could have lived in trailers, apartments, condos, or single-family homes. I didn't read up on their background info, if there was any. Their backgrounds are irrelevant to what they did, which was indeed a hate crime, as Doodler has said.

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The dose makes the poison--Paracelsus (1493-1541) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paracelsus

I don't know. That's why I'm asking--Noclevername

Intelligence may not be clearly defined, but you know stupid when you see it--Noclevername

Science is a way of thinking much more than it is a body of knowledge--Carl Sagan (1934-1996)

That wreaks of PC-ness. You think the system has jailed them for their being black versus their being criminals?

IMO, the vast racial imbalance in the prisons is because there is a vast imbalance in the racial make-up of those commiting crimes.

Pigeonholing and generalizations are such dirty words in that they upset sensitive people. I prefer demographic characteristics. If a certain demographic is disproportionately represented in certain behaviors, I see nothing wrong with calling that out; because as the saying goes, if you can't talk about it, you can't fix it.

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Don of Borg - Cool, Calm, Collective.

"Within the next generation I believe that the world's leaders will discover that infant conditioning and narco-hypnosis are more efficient, as instruments of government, than clubs and prisons, and that the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

definitely reeks of PC-ness. Once you re-factor the statistics of the prision population for economic class, you find that that is the factor that determines the prison population, not skin color.

Why blacks are dispropotionatly poor, on the other hand, is a good question. Unfortunately, it is not a question for this board.

Technically, you just need to make sure your generalization is not too sweeping. If you had called them 'trailer trash' that should have left Serenitude out of the generalization (I think :P ), while still giving the connotative meaning you were trying for. Actually finding out their might have been better.

This is why I don't tell any of you my real name.
(Just kidding.)

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I don't care which rocket you use, whichever one you pick, I'll like it, I swear.
"If you think the LHC will create black holes, you might as well believe Hobbits are at the bottom of your garden."- Dr. Mike Inglis
Rovers forever! - ToSeek

I know you were kidding, but I make it policy no to do so either.(No I wasn't brought up in a trailer.)
The problem is no matter how open minded people might claim to be, there is always some pre-conceived (assumptions, generalisations....which might not be necessarily bad) ideas on how certain people should behave.

Of course you weren't brought up in a trailer. Not giving your real name is Internet safety 101 and taught in all schools were I live nowadays. But I can understand the mistakes made by people who graduated before this was taught.

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I want to go back to the moon.
I don't care which rocket you use, whichever one you pick, I'll like it, I swear.
"If you think the LHC will create black holes, you might as well believe Hobbits are at the bottom of your garden."- Dr. Mike Inglis
Rovers forever! - ToSeek

Hey, I've got relatives in that area of West Virginia.

Some of 'em didn't even get indoor toilets until the '80s, many have died due to black-lung (from mining coal) and more than a few of 'em remember when they first got electricity.

..... so we're not surprised at the story.

I've been witness to "well-educated" people who really do subscribe to Paracelsus' misstatement. I can't count the number of times I've heard such a person decry a particular form of bigotry (racial, ethnic, etc.) and then, in their next breath, practice cultural bigotry aimed at trailer park residents, rednecks, hillbillies, or other groups that are fashionable to denigrate.

So if we're coining terms, perhaps we should also invent one for "well-educated", bigoted, and ignorant people.

Nah. I like your second option better.

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Brett
Peters Creek, Alaska
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Come to rural Tennessee, we've got a few. Especially some geared towards people that think living is a city gives them an instant one-up on those who don't.

I once spent an hour convincing relative in the Northeast that, yes, rural electrification in the South happened a long time ago.

I once spent an hour convincing relative in the Northeast that, yes, rural electrification in the South happened a long time ago.

It just goes to show you that some people don't have to go overseas to be "Ugly Americans." I've had a few run-ins with coasters who think that living in big cities (especially along the coasts) gives them special insight and superiority over others.

As for the idea of "hate crime" laws, I personally find the idea repugnant. Crime is crime regardless of motivation. If someone commits violence on someone else, it shouldn't make any difference about the relative races, sexes, etc. of the parties involved. The claimed goal of our legal system is equal justice under the law. The notion of hate crimes legislation is to throw out the idea of equal justice and to set aside some groups as being more worthy of legal protection.

If this group in West Virginia are found guilty of the crimes they're accused of committing (remember, they're as entitled to the presumption of innocence as anyone else), then they should be punished severely. Punishing them even more severely because of the race of the victim is simply wrong, IMO.

Believe you me, I know what you're talking about. My father is from Tennessee, I'm originally from Mississippi, and I lived throughout much of the South for most of my life. Since becoming an Alaskan, I've found that misconceptions and stereotypes about us and our state are nearly as common.

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Brett
Peters Creek, Alaska
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