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View Poll Results: Which should it be?
Flower of Scotland 4 33.33%
Scotland the Brave 5 41.67%
Highland Cathedral 1 8.33%
Scots Wha Hae 1 8.33%
A Man's A Man For A' That 1 8.33%
Voters: 12. You may not vote on this poll

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  #31 (permalink)  
Old 12-October-2007, 11:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sticks View Post
I suspect this thread is in violation of BAUT forum rules, re political discussions

But for the record, Scotland as part of the United Kingdom already has a national anthem, and that anthmem is "God Save the Queen"
I believe yours was the first political post, Sticks. Also, it's incorrect. Since we're discussing a national anthem, perhaps you'd like to consider the difference between a nation and a country.
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  #32 (permalink)  
Old 12-October-2007, 11:42 AM
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The UK doesn't have a national anthem. God Save the Queen is just a useful song for sports matches.
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  #33 (permalink)  
Old 12-October-2007, 11:52 AM
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Originally Posted by parallaxicality View Post
The UK doesn't have a national anthem. God Save the Queen is just a useful song for sports matches.
It's never been officially made the national anthem, but this is the only way in which it's not regarded as one. Culturally, it is generally accepted. In fact, I'd bet most UK citizens don't even know that it's not official.

It's only of use for sports matches where people or teams represent the UK - like at the Olympics, for example. Its use for English football matches, for example, is offensive to the rest of the UK. England, as per the other thread, should really adopt its own national anthem, official or not, for those circumstances.
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  #34 (permalink)  
Old 12-October-2007, 12:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lianachan View Post
"Scotch" = offensive, definately.
Do you know when it became so? In the 18th century it seems to have been common enough for Scots to refer to themselves as "Scotch": I seem to remember Boswell doing it, for instance, though of course he was so apologetic about being a Scot that he's perhaps not typical.

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Originally Posted by Lianachan View Post
Howver, I have never in my entire life been offended, or even heard of any Scottish person being offended by being called "Scottish"
Same here. There are usages in which "Scots" is more customary ("the guid Scots tongue"), but I doubt anyone would get upset at a deviation from that. And then there's the thing about saying "King (or Queen) of Scots", rather than "... of Scotland"; but it isn't a particular biggie.

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Originally Posted by Lianachan View Post
"Wade didn't lay down nearly as much road in the Highlands as his successor did. They are all inaccurately known as "Wade's Roads" ...
That's interesting. They've always been the "Wade and Caulfeild roads" in our house, though I might now need to get the book out to point out which were which, outside of the Dunkeld-Dalwhinnie axis.

Grant Hutchison
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  #35 (permalink)  
Old 12-October-2007, 12:31 PM
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Originally Posted by grant hutchison View Post
Do you know when it became so? In the 18th century it seems to have been common enough for Scots to refer to themselves as "Scotch"
I think it started to decline in the 19th century. Very slowly, I assume, since the term is often still used by non-Scots.
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Originally Posted by grant hutchison View Post
That's interesting. They've always been the "Wade and Caulfeild roads" in our house, though I might now need to get the book out to point out which were which, outside of the Dunkeld-Dalwhinnie axis.
They were always just Wade's Roads in my childhood house and at school, but that could be simply because the roads in that area were indeed made by Wade. It's difficult to tell which is which, but you may find these old maps useful and/or interesting.
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  #36 (permalink)  
Old 12-October-2007, 02:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Serenitude View Post
The theme from Braveheart
How about the theme from Highlander?
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  #37 (permalink)  
Old 12-October-2007, 02:46 PM
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One kinda hit me as I was reading this, but I doubt the mods would look kindly on sheep jokes, to say nothing of the Scottish among us.
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  #38 (permalink)  
Old 12-October-2007, 03:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lianachan View Post
They were always just Wade's Roads in my childhood house and at school, but that could be simply because the roads in that area were indeed made by Wade. It's difficult to tell which is which, but you may find these old maps useful and/or interesting.
Oooh, old maps! My thing. Thanks!
If you're interested, you might care to hunt down A Walker's Companion to the Wade Roads, by Joan & Arthur Baker, ISBN 0906664187. It's correctly named, since it deals only with the roads built under Wade's superintendency, and it gives much detail along the length of each road.
From that, I find a snippet that might be useful for your Wikipedia page on Caulfeild: "His former assistant and successor as road builder in the Highlands, William Caulfeild thought so highly of him that he named his son, Wade Toby after him. The tradition is still maintained in the Caulfeild family." [Sic throughout with regard to those commas, I'm afraid].

Grant Hutchison
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  #39 (permalink)  
Old 12-October-2007, 03:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lianachan View Post
Its use for English football matches, for example, is offensive to the rest of the UK. England, as per the other thread, should really adopt its own national anthem, official or not, for those circumstances.
Land of Hope and Glory is used during the Commonwealth games because God Save the Queen is the anthem of the games themselves. Is God Save the Queen used during Six Nation? That would seem weird for a competition where half of the nations are UK home nations and another one includes another part of it.

There is a campaign to get Jerusalem adopted as the English national anthem.
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  #40 (permalink)  
Old 12-October-2007, 03:55 PM
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Land of Hope and Glory is used during the Commonwealth games because God Save the Queen is the anthem of the games themselves. Is God Save the Queen used during Six Nation? That would seem weird for a competition where half of the nations are UK home nations and another one includes another part of it.
I've no idea, I'm not a fan of rugby (except Scotland matches). I'm pretty sure God Save The Queen is used at English international football matches, though. Good to see the resurgence of the George Cross flag at those kind of events.
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  #41 (permalink)  
Old 12-October-2007, 03:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grant hutchison View Post
Oooh, old maps! My thing. Thanks!
If you're interested, you might care to hunt down A Walker's Companion to the Wade Roads, by Joan & Arthur Baker, ISBN 0906664187. It's correctly named, since it deals only with the roads built under Wade's superintendency, and it gives much detail along the length of each road.
From that, I find a snippet that might be useful for your Wikipedia page on Caulfeild: "His former assistant and successor as road builder in the Highlands, William Caulfeild thought so highly of him that he named his son, Wade Toby after him. The tradition is still maintained in the Caulfeild family." [Sic throughout with regard to those commas, I'm afraid].

Grant Hutchison
Cool. By the way, I walked (what I could trace of) the military road from Ft William to Ft Augustus last summer.
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  #42 (permalink)  
Old 12-October-2007, 04:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Lianachan View Post
I think it started to decline in the 19th century. Very slowly, I assume, since the term is often still used by non-Scots.
I knew I'd read something about this recently. Here we go. From The Oxford Guide to World English:
Quote:
Scotch
A late 16th-century contraction of Scottish ... For generations, Scotch ousted Scottish in England as the prevailing adjective form. In Scotland, the native form Scots predominated until, during an Anglicizing vogue in the 18th century, Scotch became fashionable. In the early 19th century, however, some writers expressed doubts about it as an innovation and preferred Scottish or Scots ... By the early 20th century, disapproval of Scotch among educated people in Scotland was so great that teachers there discouraged its use, except for such stock phrases as Scotch broth, Scotch mist, Scotch terrier, Scotch tweed and Scotch whisky.
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  #43 (permalink)  
Old 12-October-2007, 04:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grant hutchison View Post
I knew I'd read something about this recently. Here we go. From The Oxford Guide to World English:
Grant Hutchison
I'm pretty sure Scotch Terrier is almost exclusively Scottish Terrier now.
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  #44 (permalink)  
Old 12-October-2007, 07:48 PM
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I dunno much about the various choices but I
have a hankering to hear a young lass in
tartan singing "Keep right on to the end
of the road". Might work with the right
backing and a warmed up audience.
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  #45 (permalink)  
Old 12-October-2007, 09:37 PM
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Scots and Scottish come from the same root in Old then Middle English, the latter acquiring the same suffix as Welsh, English, Irish etc., merely to accomodate the famously monoglot English.
Of course, 'scotch' has totally different and negative meanings, to frustrate and to slash or wound. Perhaps that influenced 19th century Scots, exceot where qualified by being an adjective, and of a well known product.

John
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  #46 (permalink)  
Old 12-October-2007, 10:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by parallaxicality View Post
The UK doesn't have a national anthem. God Save the Queen is just a useful song for sports matches.
If we're looking for a Scottish song with the same function, how about We Hate Jimmy Hill?
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  #47 (permalink)  
Old 13-October-2007, 03:19 AM
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'Sex machine' by James Brown. If ANY country made that their national anthem I'd move there tomorrow :P:
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  #48 (permalink)  
Old 13-October-2007, 03:21 AM
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And for the record the Scots must already have something because they don't play God Save the Queen when their sporting teams compete (it's something else but i cant really catch the tune or lyrics)
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