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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 12-October-2007, 02:17 AM
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Default What happens when an imperturbable p:ssantry meets an implacable pettiness

Lawyer Parent v. School Board, in Texas:
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said he knew that bringing the Edwards shirt to his son would potentially trigger a reaction from administrators.
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Old 12-October-2007, 04:23 AM
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The incident took place Sept. 21 after Pete was pulled aside by a school official for wearing all black, another dress code violation.
Oy. I didn't know I was being such a misfit when I chose the black T-shirt this morning.
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Old 12-October-2007, 08:59 AM
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Default Re: What happens when an imperturbable p:ssantry meets an implacable pettiness

I suppose I could have gotten in trouble for wearing my "Alfred E. Neuman for President" t-shirt at Waxahachie High School, especially during 2000 and 2004. I did have "AEN for Pres" stickers on my notebooks back in 1960, 1964, and 1968, but there was no uproar, probably because none of the candidates resembled Alfred, not even the one from Texas.

Maybe the kid could go to school nekkid. No dress, no violation.

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Old 12-October-2007, 09:05 AM
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(snip)

Maybe the kid could go to school nekkid. No dress, no violation.

Something may get violated.
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Old 12-October-2007, 10:30 AM
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Well I have a Yellow T-Shirt that says "I love Ninoy! I love Democracy" when I was in high school in the height of the People Power here in my country.

Good thing my school didn't sued me or gave me official warning from wearing it .

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Old 12-October-2007, 01:42 PM
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Looks like another case of people being offended. It's just sad that this is raised to the level that it has.

In the recent school shooting locally, I'm beginning to re-assess this whole dress code thing.
By being very strict, you may not notice the people who may be the farthest down the line headed for trouble. In a strict environment, even a slight variation may make someone look like a rabble-rouser.
Let them wear black, it helps them stand out when you're keeping an eye on them.

By the quote in the OP, the kid knew the rule, knew it's a violation, and stepped over the line. While I can sympathize with the lawyer's point of view, I've never considered breaking a rule as a way to fight a rule.

Quote:
"I don't know what educational goal you're serving by banning speech on T-shirts that's not provocative or not disruptive," Palmer said. "It just seems like it's a petty use of authority."
Ethics? Sociology?
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Old 12-October-2007, 02:16 PM
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I'm tired of spending part of my time enforcing the dress code at my school. I'm for uniforms for the teachers and the students. I'm tired of students expressing themselves by having their jeans hang down so that their underwear shows or wearing skimpy T-shirts so their bra shows.
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Old 12-October-2007, 02:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Tinaa View Post
I'm tired of spending part of my time enforcing the dress code at my school.
Understandably...

Getting rid of the dress code might help alleviate that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tinaa View Post
I'm for uniforms for the teachers and the students.
Disagree. Neowatcher hit the nail on the head.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tinaa View Post
I'm tired of students expressing themselves by having their jeans hang down so that their underwear shows or wearing skimpy T-shirts so their bra shows.
Exactly! And where are the parents?
If my son (in later years) walks out the door looking like that he will get dragged back into the house and I will enforce the dress code.

Personal expression is fine. Disciplined and responsible parents are fine too.
A dress code is a weak approach. It's like putting perfume on excrement.
It doesn't solve the problem- It creates a new problem.

The kids here in Austin wear what the dress code states- and still "sag" their slacks so they look like they have a full diaper.

Parents have gotten lazy because the schools and government seem to be taking over the job.

We need to go back to the parents doing the job and the schools and government doing their job.
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Old 12-October-2007, 03:37 PM
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Originally Posted by NEOWatcher View Post
By the quote in the OP, the kid knew the rule, knew it's a violation, and stepped over the line. While I can sympathize with the lawyer's point of view, I've never considered breaking a rule as a way to fight a rule.
I respectfully disagree. In a Common Law society (such as the USA) generally the only real avenue a member of the public has in addressing what they see as an unfair gov't law/order/regulation/whatever is to break it and drag the whole mess to the courts where it can be interpreted within the lens of the Constitution and other legal authority.

(Note: I tried to find a good example of this, but came up short due to time restrictions. The Civil Rights Movement first appeared to cover it, but it's an example of challangeing laws for publicity. The Jim Crowe Laws were overturned by the Civil Rights Act (i.e. Congress) and not the courts. If anyone would like to jump in with an example, that'd be way cool)
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Old 12-October-2007, 03:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Matherly View Post
If anyone would like to jump in with an example, that'd be way cool)
Abortion? No, that don't work, Roe didn't break a law in having the case considered, right?

Miranda? A law was broken, but not a matter of civil disobedience.

I dunno, you may want to rethink your comment that the USA is a common law society--excepting contracts and property, I guess
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Old 12-October-2007, 05:04 PM
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I respectfully disagree. In a Common Law society (such as the USA) generally the only real avenue ...
I don't know what the finer points are, but I've always understood a person can sue or fight a law at any time for any reason.
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Old 12-October-2007, 05:13 PM
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I don't know what the finer points are, but I've always understood a person can sue or fight a law at any time for any reason.
Well, you can file a lawsuit. But to actually get your "day in court," you have to show standing - that the law in question would actually harm you. This was how "Jane Roe" was able to sue over the anti-abortion law without actually having an abortion and being arrested for it.

In 2000, Anthony Newdow filed a lawsuit on behalf of his daughter, suggesting that the requirement that she say the Pledge of Allegiance in school violated her First Amendment rights (because of "Under God"). Eventually, the United States Supreme Court threw out the case on the simple grounds that Newdow's ex-wife had sole custody of their daughter, and so he had no standing - the law had no effect on him.
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Old 12-October-2007, 05:26 PM
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Well, you can file a lawsuit. But to actually get your "day in court," you have to show standing - that the law in question would actually harm you.
One of the ways to do that is to break the law, and get arrested/fined/etc.

People just aren't willing to go to the trouble nowadays.
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Old 12-October-2007, 05:30 PM
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I'm for school uniforms for several reasons. Besides simplifying enforcement to free up teachers - my biggest thing is the social aspect.

Many kids don't get a fair shake at all in their peer groups because their parents can't afford to dress them like the "in" crowd. So they end up getting picked on and their studies and personal development all suffer due to things well beyond their control at that age. If the schools just set a dress code - you can be as individualistic as you want when it comes to personality. You won't get picked on for what you're wearing and you won't spend unreasonable efforts pursuing popularity via things you can't afford. That - and the teachers can focus on the million other obstacles to education.
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Old 12-October-2007, 05:47 PM
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Regardless of whether you're for or against school uniforms; I have no sympathy for someone who breaks the rules, then complains about getting in trouble for doing so.

If you want to disobey rules to show that you are against them, so be it. I know some ancesestors in Boston who were all for that idea.

But don't act suprised when you have to pay the consequences for breaking the rules. I could see suing if they weren't upholding the dresscode equally, or if it was some secret dresscode that you didn't know you were breaking. But suing because the school did exactly what they said they'd do if you took said action? That just reeks with "I want attention. I want money. Neaner neaner neaner."
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Old 12-October-2007, 06:05 PM
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Who pays for all the uniforms?
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Old 12-October-2007, 06:16 PM
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Forget it all... the school is wrong no matter what they do.
Here's another example...
School sends home obesity notices with students, parent upset

Quote:
It listed her height, weight and body mass index – a measure of body fat. Underneath the listing it had a marking next to the status "overweight."
"My daughter is big boned," said Martinez.
...
Martinez says that decision is causing her daughter emotional distress.
It's real upsetting for me to see her worried so much about her weight issue when it's not really that big of a deal. She's not that overweight."
Yet; she's ok with the national attention?
Quote:
She also says the damage was already done when she read the notice and she's talked to Isabel about addressing this issue of sending the notices home with students. Martinez says her daughter is OK with this information being released
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Old 12-October-2007, 06:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NEOWatcher View Post
Forget it all... the school is wrong no matter what they do.
Here's another example...
School sends home obesity notices with students, parent upset


Yet; she's ok with the national attention?
Can we get a picture?
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Old 12-October-2007, 06:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NEOWatcher View Post
Forget it all... the school is wrong no matter what they do.
Here's another example...
School sends home obesity notices with students, parent upset