Southern California on fire, October 2007

01101001 · #1 (**permalink**) 23-October-2007, 01:14 AM

NASA Earth Observatory: Fires in Southern California

Quote:

In what seemed like the blink of an eye, wildfires ignited in the paper-dry, drought-stricken vegetation of Southern California over the weekend of October 20, 2007, and exploded into massive infernos that forced hundreds of thousands of people to evacuate their communities. Driven by Santa Ana winds, fires grew thousands of acres in just one to two days. The fires sped down from the mountains into the outskirts of coastal cities, including San Diego. Dozens of homes have burned to the ground, and at least one person has died, according to local news reports. Several of the fires were burning completely out of control as of October 22.

This image of the fires in California was captured at 1:55 p.m. U.S. Pacific Daylight Time on October 22, 2007. Places where MODIS detected actively burning fires are outlined in red. Thick streamers of smoke unfurl over the Pacific Ocean. The brownish plumes are clouds of dust. Fires northwest of Los Angeles seemed calmer at the time of this image than they were the previous day.

danscope · #2 (**permalink**) 23-October-2007, 04:12 AM

I have often thought that some refitted C-130's with a scoop and drop
tank could be employed. They are next to the ocean, you see.
Also, so many homes have swimming pools. Duh!!!!!!! 2 inch pump with a volkswagen engine running on city gas or propane. Save your house anyway.
Oh well.....we have insurance. Is that really the attitude? Or are the Santa Anna winds just a once in 20 years thing?
There is this thing called plastic pipe. Pump some of the pacific ocean up for fire supression. This isn't as hard as going to the moon ,folks.
It just looks like they want to play cheap. Once you get burned bad enough,
you start to re-examin a situation.
" But...what shall I do?" asked Mrs. Frisbee.
The old owl said ..." Ask the rats. ......They have ways. "

Best regards, Dan

sarongsong · #3 (**permalink**) 23-October-2007, 04:30 AM

C-130s are standing by, as are choppers, but aerial methods can't be employed effectively until wind speeds decline.

danscope · #4 (**permalink**) 23-October-2007, 05:36 AM

Hi, It would seem that they need 10 times the amount of C 130's currently in the op area. Copters are small and expensive...usefull for spot problems.
Fires like this need a much heavier hand.
What a pity. Quelle tragique.
Best regards, Dan

01101001 · #5 (**permalink**) 23-October-2007, 06:32 AM

Check out the new DC-10 airtanker (PDF)

YouTube video from the Zaca fire last summer

Manchurian Taikonaut · #6 (**permalink**) 23-October-2007, 11:48 AM

Envisat captures California ablaze

I hope the people can evacuate safe,
The fires looks big from space so are any of the observatories in danger like Palomar, Wilson, Radio arrays etc ?

DyerWolf · #7 (**permalink**) 23-October-2007, 02:46 PM

Anyone have a link to a satellite image?

***Please don't answer this question - it appears to be redundant due to the merging of two threads - question answered.

Neverfly · #8 (**permalink**) 23-October-2007, 02:56 PM

Southern California on fire, October 2007
This post...

Southern California on fire, October 2007

In this thread...

I think there are three threads now on this...

Spock Jenkins · #9 (**permalink**) 23-October-2007, 03:08 PM

Not sure if this is politics - but at what point do we stop subsidizing individuals desire to live in places that are cleary prone to natural disasters?

"You can build here - but you can not get insurance and the government will not pay to replace your house if it burns down."

01101001 · #10 (**permalink**) 23-October-2007, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manchurian Taikonaut

The fires looks big from space so are any of the observatories in danger like Palomar, Wilson, Radio arrays etc ?

Don't know of any astronomy-related structures currently at risk. There are threats though.

Pasadena Star News (ironic name):

Quote:

From their perch high in the middle of a tinderbox of parched vegetation, there is little for the astronomers at the Mount Wilson Observatory to do but watch - and wait.

"It's scary up here, it really is," David Jurasevich, superintendent for the Mount Wilson Institute, said Monday as fire after fire broke out across Southern California.
[...]
Astronomers are taking turns patrolling for fires each night, Jurasevich said. One scientist watches from the catwalk of the 100-inch telescope where it was first discovered that the universe is expanding.

"We really can't do a heck of a lot," he said. "We've cleared all our ground brush to the Forest Service standards. We basically have to keep watching now and report anything we see."

sarongsong · #11 (**permalink**) 23-October-2007, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manchurian Taikonaut

...are any of the observatories in danger like Palomar...?

So far, so good...

Quote:

October 23, 2007
Posted @ 5:15 AM
...LA JOLLA RESERVATION FIRE:
According to CALFIRE, a new fire is burning in the area of the La Jolla Indian Reservation...and people are being evacuated to the Palomar Observatory...
http://sosdfireblog.blogspot.com/

Larry Jacks · #12 (**permalink**) 23-October-2007, 06:07 PM

According to an unoffical fire map, it looks like my son's home is in the burn area. Offical sources are maxed out so I can't confirm anything.

My son got his wife and son to safety yesterday. Nothing else matters.

One annoying aspect of the "news" coverage is how much time they devote to the celebrities inconvienced by this fire. Who the hell cares? Why waste airtime talking about celebrities when they could be reporting on where the fire lines are?

Spock Jenkins · #13 (**permalink**) 23-October-2007, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Larry Jacks

According to an unoffical fire map, it looks like my son's home is in the burn area. Offical sources are maxed out so I can't confirm anything.

My son got his wife and son to safety yesterday. Nothing else matters.

One annoying aspect of the "news" coverage is how much time they devote to the celebrities inconvienced by this fire. Who the hell cares? Why waste airtime talking about celebrities when they could be reporting on where the fire lines are?

Good that they are safe.

I am curious to know - how much was made of the area when your son first moved in? Was it noted to be a high risk location? What were the mitigating factors in the decision (meaning - if it was high risk - because of this we'll buy anyway)? Do they even have high risk fire zones like they do flood zones?

The reason I'm asking you is because with a family member - you will likely have a bit more insight than the average person who thinks, "Well - they must have known they would likely find themselves in the path of a wild fire when they built there!"

NEOWatcher · #14 (**permalink**) 23-October-2007, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Larry Jacks

One annoying aspect of the "news" coverage is how much time they devote to the celebrities inconvienced by this fire. Who the hell cares?

I wouldn't mind if they are side stories within a larger story, but when they make an entire story out of the celebrity, or "duh" dribble, then that's when I have the issue.
Examples:
Fire affects TV shows, celebrities
Some actors can't make make it to work.
Smoke poses serious health risk
And the fire is safe?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Larry Jacks

Why waste airtime talking about celebrities when they could be reporting on where the fire lines are?

Because it only affects the local people?

A third of a million people left out of thier homes, and they don't report on the whos, and wheres, and contact information for the friends and relatives.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spock Jenkins

I am curious to know - how much was made of the area when your son first moved in? Was it noted to be a high risk location?

I don't presume to speak for Larry, but I do have observations from many trips to Orange County. Anything that is not in an urban or densely populated area seems to be in a fire risk area.
All you need is a yard.

Swift · #15 (**permalink**) 23-October-2007, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Larry Jacks

According to an unoffical fire map, it looks like my son's home is in the burn area. Offical sources are maxed out so I can't confirm anything.

My son got his wife and son to safety yesterday. Nothing else matters.

One annoying aspect of the "news" coverage is how much time they devote to the celebrities inconvienced by this fire. Who the hell cares? Why waste airtime talking about celebrities when they could be reporting on where the fire lines are?

Larry, maybe the information on this page from the Forest Sevice, with a map of active fires, will give you a little more information. Good luck to your son and his family.

DyerWolf · #16 (**permalink**) 23-October-2007, 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 01101001

NASA Earth Observatory: Fires in Southern California

Thanks for the image!

I used to live in LA. In the 80's, I remember Malibu had a terrible fire. Looking at it at night, it seemed as if the hills were covered in lava. It was eerily beautiful.

I feel for the families affected - one report shows 250k evacuated - and agree with Larry that it is annoying to have to listen to how this affects celebs.

OTQ - the earthobservatory image above shows all of Nevada. Anyone know where on that map I might see the craters from nuclear bomb testing in the 40's-50's?

Tucson_Tim · #17 (**permalink**) 23-October-2007, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by danscope

" But...what shall I do?" asked Mrs. Frisbee.
The old owl said ..." Ask the rats. ......They have ways. "

Best regards, Dan

OT: From one of my favorite animated flicks.

So, did these different fires start spontaneously from natural causes?

sarongsong · #18 (**permalink**) 23-October-2007, 07:20 PM

San Diego local TV reports an exploding power transmission line transformer started one fire, suspected arson in another.

RalofTyr · #19 (**permalink**) 23-October-2007, 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by danscope

I have often thought that some refitted C-130's with a scoop and drop
tank could be employed. They are next to the ocean, you see.
Also, so many homes have swimming pools. Duh!!!!!!! 2 inch pump with a volkswagen engine running on city gas or propane. Save your house anyway.
Oh well.....we have insurance. Is that really the attitude? Or are the Santa Anna winds just a once in 20 years thing?
There is this thing called plastic pipe. Pump some of the pacific ocean up for fire supression. This isn't as hard as going to the moon ,folks.
It just looks like they want to play cheap. Once you get burned bad enough,
you start to re-examin a situation.
" But...what shall I do?" asked Mrs. Frisbee.
The old owl said ..." Ask the rats. ......They have ways. "

Best regards, Dan

Best thing to do is not buy houses in dry brush. Eventually, in about 50 years or so, they'll be no dry brush left because everyone's built a house on it, but still....