I thought I should start a purely non-political thread here.

There just seems to be such a need for it. I have no idea how significant the need is but here goes:-

Just in case it is significant maybe it is. Now as I am not supposed to talk politics on the forum I shall talk non-politics here.

Mainly because I haven't completed my tax returns yet and am guilty. I think the first political party that accepts the responsibility for correct accounting of tax will have a good run. They (the munny gubble) get the money and honestly every other company I deal with has the common decency to send out an invoice or account for the payments plan themselves. More to the point we own them, they are our business and they sit around all day and won't do our paperwork, I call that just slack.

Even more to the point, what if one could vote in a caretaker.

A good caretaker is one that you can call to account or dismiss for failing to 'caretake' properly. Elections would still need to be held in the unlikely event there ever was a party with something to offer. I know systems are different around the world but here in Australia it is over a hundred years after Federation and after all that talk education is still an issue. Health welfare even transport among others. Surely after a hundred years all the needed talking would have been done and a good not corrupt group of civil servants would administer the best ongoing plans.

That is why you would still have elections just in case there were great ideas to put in place. But mostly people get bored even if a government does well or as well as they tell you is possible. Vested interests suit vested causes only, that is how I see it. Anyway the caretakers would be like any other profession accountable for their actions and not owning the assets the generations before had added to the nation. No sale of the property of the people or the water air roads (may need definition) whatever. If government should ever get to the stage where all is sold then for whom are the taxes?

I know I am not supposed to talk politics, I just wish now that I could vote for something other than poiliticians

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"Nature is obliged to let reality determine its laws, whereas mathematics is under no such constraint."

As do we all, Michael, as do we all.

(Completely OT-- when I saw the title of this thread I briefly thought it said... something different. )

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"If this were play'd upon a stage now, I could condemn it as an improbable fiction."
Shakespeare, Twelfth Night
Illuminati's Razor-The most complicatedly evil answer is usually the most correct answer. - Fazor
"Every book is a children's book if the kid can read." - Mitch Hedberg
"Distance doesn’t matter much in space, where if you just start a thing off with the right kind of shove, sooner or later it will get where you want it to go." -Frederik Pohl, Mining the Oort

I figured this may be a non partisan way to discuss non-politics. Highly relevant here in Australia as we look at two contenders and are left feeling 'please don't hurt us'.

It started well and I mean non-politically, straight into mud slinging so we are lucky in that we only suffer for six or seven weeks as we see people that we don't spend a lot of time thinking about getting their exercise for the next three or four years.

Voting is mandatory here and well with me being a bit compulsive that is a good thing. I go along each time looking for the caretaker and when it isn't there (and it never is) I fold up the paper and pop it in the box.

Trouble is no matter what I do, one of them keeps getting in.

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"Nature is obliged to let reality determine its laws, whereas mathematics is under no such constraint."

I thought this was about Scotland.

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2 good 2 need 4 engines

It is our job to vote for the least worst canidate. To quote Winston Churchill, "It has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all the others that have been tried."

Now here one can live quite happily by ignoring politics and shoving blank ballot papers into the box. But if that is not in your nature and you don't like politics as it currently stands then here at least you are free to work to change it and enter politics yourself if you wish to. Now I would like politics in this country to be of a higher standard than it currently is, but I'm afraid my personal wishes have little or no effect on what actually happens. It would appear my magic powers are currently inactive, so I refuse to make myself upset over this fact.

I am wary of tarring all politicians with the same brush. Politicians often make appeals to emotion rather than reason and I have noticed that many people want to vote for whoever appeals to them on an emotional level but are reasonable enough to feel guilty about ignoring the real issues. I think many people put effort into convincing themselves that all politicians are equally bad so they can vote based on emotion without feeling guilt.

Between the Bushes and the Clintons, I'm starting to feel British...

I thought we got rid of royal families two centuries ago?

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I'm not completely heartless, the doctor who removed it told me he'd never be able to get it all.

Okay, I've been here too long. I saw this thread title 10 times this morning, and thought it said "electron woes". I finally got curious as to what electron woes might be, before realizing what the actual title was. Silly me.

I disagree Ronald; while there's definately people who vote for people based on emotional or personality appeals, I think the majority still decide based on the issues. The problem is in the way people are informed of the issues; generally defering to public opinion dished via media rather than doing much critical thinking themselves. To me, this seems more a problem in younger people my age--twenties-to-thirties.

Most older folk I talk to do have thought-out reasons why the pick whoever they pick...not always great reasons, but at least they thought their way to their own conclusions. But keep in mind, not everone's a political or economical expert, it's hard for us to form opinions based solely on facts.

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I'm like one of those idiot savants...well, except for the savant part.

I have first-hand experience on this one. I'm a political studies major, and more politically active than most. Recently (10 October) in Ontario there was a provincial election and referendum. Now, the referendum was about whether or not to switch electoral systems from first-past-the-post to mixed-member proportional. In the end, FPTP was retained.

I have strong feelings about this topic (which I won't mention, to keep this non-political and on-point). In the run-up to the referendum, I canvassed for one side of the debate - going from house to house with a handful of flyers. And it made me sad: no one knew anything about the referendum. Most of them didn't understand the difference between the two systems. Many of them did, but were mistaken as to what the implications of each would be. An alarming number of people didn't know that there was a referendum, or an election, at all.

So, no, people don't choose these things rationally. They simply don't understand or care about what is going on at all. They'll go with what sounds best on a shallow level, which often includes appeals to emotion. I could provide a much more concrete example, but that would be edging too close to specific politics.

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Quaeso quousque humi defixa tua mens erit? Nonne aspicis, quae in templa veneris?

Naw, just until recently they've kept it to congress (and Hollywood).

[edited as I forgot a word]

To be fair to those individuals. There are a great many issues that may matter to one individual or another and seem very important. However in the grand scheme of things - they really just don't make that big of a difference. Of course a person who believes very strongly about the particular issue in question isn't going to agree with this sentiment because they have a vested interest in the issue.

In the states - I sometimes wonder if 4 or 8 years is too short a term for president. Just thinking outloud I suppose. How much more important would that election be if you knew you would be stuck with that individual for the next 10 years minimum? Or 20 if they decided to run again? Overall - the shorter the better in my estimation - but I do sometimes wonder.

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Spock Jenkins of the Vulcan Jenkins'.

How much more important would that election be if you knew you would be stuck with that individual for the next 10 years minimum? Or 20 if they decided to run again? Overall - the shorter the better in my estimation - but I do sometimes wonder. I've wondered that myself. The other thing that amazes me is how much a current political figure gets attributed to current economical statistics, even though given the nature of poltics and economics, the impact of anything done during one term will likely not be seen for at least one or two terms after the fact.

It's like everyone assumes theres some "economy lever" that a president can pull to either fix or worsen the economy instantly. I guess that thought would make me feel better about being president, as if I did royally screw up it probably would get blamed on the next guy

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I'm like one of those idiot savants...well, except for the savant part.

The majority of people just don't think about it. In feudal times, if there was a crop failure, there was a peasant revolt. Just like clockwork. Today, the economy's bad, it must be someone's fault. Hey, look, there's someone who claims to be responsible for the entire country! Let's get 'im!

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"If this were play'd upon a stage now, I could condemn it as an improbable fiction."
Shakespeare, Twelfth Night
Illuminati's Razor-The most complicatedly evil answer is usually the most correct answer. - Fazor
"Every book is a children's book if the kid can read." - Mitch Hedberg
"Distance doesn’t matter much in space, where if you just start a thing off with the right kind of shove, sooner or later it will get where you want it to go." -Frederik Pohl, Mining the Oort

True. But when the economy is good, those in power always take credit for it.

It isn't just this issue, though. It is politics in general - people just do not care. But then they complain about how the government is running things. It seems like they do care, but do not care enough to get off their couch and inform themselves.

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Quaeso quousque humi defixa tua mens erit? Nonne aspicis, quae in templa veneris?

Now this is where non-politically is where it all comes together.

I don't want to see someone in power but I would like them to think they can take credit for a good job. Their salary and work performance review should suffice and a clean report card that they kept their fingers out of the till.

Once non-politics takes off then those behind the scenes with the power are exposed and have to account for why they duck for cover, dodge the issue, shift the blame, evade the question and basically get away with murder by hiding behind the system. Now do not mention name this is not politics.

I am looking for someone who has to do a job not someone who says they can do a job and is someone not in a position to fiddle the books

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"Nature is obliged to let reality determine its laws, whereas mathematics is under no such constraint."

It's called cynicism, and I'm just as guilty of it as anyone. Here in the States there is a growing feeling, especially among younger people, that the system is corrupt and breaking down, and votes don't matter. It's not universal, but it does explain our huge and growing voter apathy.

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"If this were play'd upon a stage now, I could condemn it as an improbable fiction."
Shakespeare, Twelfth Night
Illuminati's Razor-The most complicatedly evil answer is usually the most correct answer. - Fazor
"Every book is a children's book if the kid can read." - Mitch Hedberg
"Distance doesn’t matter much in space, where if you just start a thing off with the right kind of shove, sooner or later it will get where you want it to go." -Frederik Pohl, Mining the Oort

When I was younger I didn't care about anything but having fun. As I grew older I started to pay more attention to US and world affairs. Nowadays I pay a lot of attention - and I'm getting more cynical with each passing year.

Also, with a presidential campaign that lasts a year and a half - it's enough to sour anyone on politics.

here in the US, the media picks a few presidential candidates and calls them the "front runners". they give virtually all their attention to these so-called "front runners" and ignore all the "second tier" and "third tier" candidates- and they are the ones with all the good ideas.
the networks even ignore the second and third tier candidates if they win all of their own polls after the debates..
in the end, come election day, the only "real" choice we have is like that episode of South Park, where they had to choose between a giant douche and a turd sandwich, and i think the public is getting tired of it.
at least i hope so.

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"blacker than the blackest black... times infinity."- Nathan Explosion
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