Given the limitations imposed by a finite speed of information, how could a galactic empire be governed?

If high fractions of c were achievable it would be possible to have a galactic bureaucracy, taking care of the affairs, travelling from planet to planet to deliver government instructions and policies, in a relatively short time in their reference frames, thanks to time dilation. But the instructions and policies would seem incomprehensible for the masses in stationary frames. You see Mr. John [an envoy from the central galactic government] when you are seven years old, in your home planet, talking to your leader. When you are 80 years old mr John comes to your planet again, to inspect a project he [as a goverment officer] started 73 years ago in your frame, but only days in his own frame, and he doesn´t seem to have aged at all. For all practical purposes, the bureaucracy members would be considered immortal for the stationay folks. They would belong in a special caste, departed from daily reality.

Since the 'galactic empire' is a recurring theme in sci-fi, what do you think? Would it really be possible?

__________________
If you're careful enough, nothing bad or good will ever happen to you.

It might be worse. Electrical signals in the human brain only travel at a few miles an hour. I don't see any reason why they can't be sped up a few million times so a one year delay might seem like a 10 million year delay. If this happens the time lag would make the earth and moon seperate civilizations.

Thanks for the [lone] input.

Actually I´d like to explore that possibility assuming that human physiology remains the same. But the issue [which seems exciting to me] somehow does not seem to move our fellows.

__________________
If you're careful enough, nothing bad or good will ever happen to you.

Argos,

I was actually thinking of posting about this exact issue. It seems due to the finite and slow speed of light when put on the galactic scale that any central governance would fail. It would take tens of thousands of years to send a message from one side of the galaxy to the other . . .

Will we ever find FTL transfer of information?

__________________
And so it was, however late . . .

Wow, I´m glad you have thought of that too.

Permeating Isac Asimov´s stories there´s always the figure of the central government envoy, telling local [planetary] governments to do this or that. But Asimov is always faithful depicting time dilation. The envoy travels close to the speed of light and does look immortal to the locals.

In those stories, the central government is generally carrying out very long term projects [thousands of years], thus, long distances, hundreds or few thousands of light years, do not interfere with the projects´ developments. The envoy can travel to the opposite side of the galaxy in few days in his frame, so he can manage such projects like we do to our real ones.

Of course in such a scheme any information emanating from the central government would be delivered in person by the envoy. He would have power and independence to take action on arrival.

What I mean is: is such a scheme really feasible? Could it give rise to a new dimension in governance? Or central galactic governments are simply doomed to fail, as you say?

__________________
If you're careful enough, nothing bad or good will ever happen to you.

Mostly via tradition and legacy

Not as it has most often been portrayed, but then science fiction that involves such wide-spread political entities generally accompany the empire with some form of FTL. Then again if we are dealing with truly alien considerations, who's to say?

__________________
Iyam what Iyam

Yeah, but let us assume, as Asimov does, that everything is done at sub-light [though very high - 0,9 to 0,998 c] speeds.

__________________
If you're careful enough, nothing bad or good will ever happen to you.

Which asimov story(ies) would this be? the foundation series certainly incorporate an FTL varient.

__________________
Iyam what Iyam

Well, I´m referring to a specific one, from the Empire series [maybe, which I can´t remember now], which has drawn my attention exactly for the fact that the envoy´s travels seem to obey relativity. I´ll check later at home.

Note that, although I cite Asimov, it is not necessary to the discussion. The formulation in the OP should suffice.

__________________
If you're careful enough, nothing bad or good will ever happen to you.

The only concept I've seen that might be plausible is the Dune Prequels, in which an AI programmed to control society is in charge on every planet. Of course, the stories the screwed this up with bad (and unrealistic, IMO) programming, allowing rebellion to develop. If someone really wants to maintain an STL galactic "empire" with a stable society, on every planet all human activities must be AI monitored, human access to education and technology must be severely limited, people must be intensely conditioned to obey the AI from earliest childhood, and any who show even the slightest sign of rebellion, original thought, creativity, or popularity must be utterly eradicated, along with everyone they've been in contact with. All information must be rigidly controlled.

In the end, it's not much of a glorious Empire, is it?

__________________
"If this were play'd upon a stage now, I could condemn it as an improbable fiction."
Shakespeare, Twelfth Night
Illuminati's Razor-The most complicatedly evil answer is usually the most correct answer. - Fazor
"Every book is a children's book if the kid can read." - Mitch Hedberg
"Distance doesn’t matter much in space, where if you just start a thing off with the right kind of shove, sooner or later it will get where you want it to go." -Frederik Pohl, Mining the Oort

If you assume sublight, and human population, then no, interstellar, muchless galactic, empire (in the traditional sense of "empire") is impossible to maintain.

__________________
Iyam what Iyam

The only thing necessary to form a galactic empire is a galaxy wide war, perhaps against Andromedan invaders. The only way to form a defense is to cooperate on a galaxy wide scale, using shared algorithm strategies so you can coordinate attacks/defense without FTL communications.

For example, there could be a preplanned contingency to coordinate an attack on Sirius on particular years, if it's taken over by the enemy. Or preplanned priorities to counterattack on Luyten's star first, if both Luyten and Barnard's star are taken over. These plans of action allow the Empire to coordinate without ridiculous multi-decade light speed delays.

The individual star systems would mostly live independent lives, but in all matters involving "The War", devotion to the Empire's plan takes priority. Any attempts to deviate from the plans will lead to defeat by the enemy and possibly even punishment by the Empire itself. Self interest in the face of the common threat will keep everyone in line.

"Waiting for..."

__________________
*

I think the answer to the OP all depends on the physics.

Without some sort of transportation even close to light speed, I would say the answer is no. Systems might be colonized, and may even get re-visits, but they would be basically independent.

With close to light speed, or even slightly higher, so that journeys are months to years for close systems (10 lys, not 100s or 1000s), I could see an empire sort of like the Earth empires of the 16th and 17th centuries.

If the journey decreased to days or less, unless there were other limits, the answer is definitely yes.

IsaacKuo raises a very interesting variation - no FTL or even close to light speed (and the invader has the same technology), but we have to develop some sort of contingency. I could see something like he discusses, where plans are developed that are carried out over generations. He still, I suppose a given world could not participate, at least for some period of time, since it would take centuries for the other human worlds to "punish" them.

Ursula K. Le Guin had a device called an ansible in several of her science fiction stories. She postulated a human civilization based on sub-light travel, but close to instantaneous communication. IIRC, it was not an empire, planets were independent in governance, and even developed rather different cultures, but did trade and a small number of people traveled from one to another.

__________________
At night the stars put on a show for free (Carole King)

One Earth, One Sky - IYA 2009

But the people in charge of the Empire could travel close to c. A thousand light years would be crossed in hours or days, from their POV. It would be possible to govern, although I´m not sure what meaning such a government would have.

__________________
If you're careful enough, nothing bad or good will ever happen to you.

Actually, I was assuming high velocity capability. If both sides are limited to low velocities...say, less than 10%c, then the penalties of using light speed delays to negotiate coordinated strategies among your neighbors might not be too bad. But if both sides are capable of, say, 50%c, then by the time you figure out you coordinate your plans it's too late. Blam, the enemy's already hit you before you could coordinate your reaction.

A ship going at any decent fraction of C is pretty easy to destroy as long as you know it's coming. If it gets up to .99C or so, it's too fast to prepare for, but it can't stop; it can only destroy targets, not capture them. And to maintain an Empire, you need troops on the ground, which means a slow (and vulnerable) entry into the star system.

__________________
"If this were play'd upon a stage now, I could condemn it as an improbable fiction."
Shakespeare, Twelfth Night
Illuminati's Razor-The most complicatedly evil answer is usually the most correct answer. - Fazor
"Every book is a children's book if the kid can read." - Mitch Hedberg
"Distance doesn’t matter much in space, where if you just start a thing off with the right kind of shove, sooner or later it will get where you want it to go." -Frederik Pohl, Mining the Oort

What I meant by not even close to light speed is that relativistic effects wouldn't be significant (for example 0.2 c). So a journey would still take years by their POV. I know 0.9 c is theoretically possible, but maybe it is just not practical.

In such a case, I don't see that there would be a lot of travel between the home world and the colonies and that there would not be much to prevent the colonies from being independent.

However, in my middle situation, where high-sub-light is possible (0.9 c, for example), I agree with you, though I'm still not sure how much control the home world could have.

Look for example at Great Britain and colonial India. IMO, GB kept control by the ability to keep troops in India. Now, if troops could go there for a year or two, and then take a couple of months to return, that is probably a tractable situation for an empire.

But, how does that change if it takes years or decades for the troops to come home? Or what about if it only takes months by their POV, but 200 years have passed back on Earth and their families are all dead.

Some SF writers have proposed situations where that happened (The Forever War), but I'm not convinced they are stable.

Of course, I'm discussing an empire ruled by force. What about one that is held together by other things, such as by trade or cultural similarities? Again, I think it depends on the details of the transportation system. Can you have an empire/alliance held together by trade, if interstellar travel is so expensive and difficult, that it is not economically viable to ship things?

With the near C system, even if the trip is short by the travellers POV, but decades or centuries have passed on the home world, how much cultural interaction could there be? Imagine you left Earth in 1940 for Alpha Centauri and returned in 2007 - the changes in Earth culture during that time might seem greater to the traveller than the change from Earth to AC.

__________________
At night the stars put on a show for free (Carole King)

One Earth, One Sky - IYA 2009

In order to maintain an Empire, your troops on the ground can come from the local population. If anyone revol