Sterilise to save the planet

Pretty sick really. I know the chattering classes are capable of a great deal of bombastic pomposity, but this really is on another plane of existance. I'm surprised she hasn't collapsed into a singularity under the weight of her own pretensiousness.

So having children is now a crime against the environment? Parents, do you look at your children and see them for the instruments of destruction they are?

The basis is false as well. Fertility rates in the developed world are low. Most first world countries are below replacement rate. The cause of global population growth is high fertility in Africa and Asia, caused by their relative underdevelopment. Sterilisation by white, middle class misanthrops will not help to save the planet.

Plus, isn't this population bomb crap getting rather old. The Malthusian catastrophe has been prophesied for over a century. The population quadrupled during the 20th century yet at the end the 6 billion inhabitants were overall* better fed, healthier and more prosperous than the 1½ billion at the start. Besides, the IPCC itself forecasts a topping out at 9 billion in the middle of the century followed by a decline thereafter.

The good news is that if these sad souls refuse to procreate, they won't pass on their madness to the next generation.

* Yes I'm well aware of the scourge of real poverty throughout the world, but the situation nevertheless is better than it was a hundred years ago.

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2 good 2 need 4 engines

I can see where it gets old. The real danger, if its even a danger at all, is the translocation of exploding populations into the voids left behind by declining populations.

Europe has the Mediterranean as a nice, difficult to cross, shield from the real dangerous effects of a population vaccuum, but consider the ONLY reason why the United States is still above the replacement level for the source of my concern.

Developed world populations may be in a position to slip by Malthus's trap, but if the developing world isn't contained until they reach the point where education and development mitigate the need for explosive population growth, the human race as a whole is still in a fair amount of jeopardy.

Too many developing world cultures cling doggedly to the idea of massive families with women who have VERY little control over their reproductive capabilities yet. The situation is improving, perhaps, but its far from certain that the developed world has it in them to browbeat these developing cultures into shaping up. Too many bleeding hearts throwing carrots blindly to effectively wield the stick to motivate change.

I think it does. Those cultures of which you speak are no different from the cultures that used to exist in the West. There will be a steady erosion of the push for large families after a time.

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2 good 2 need 4 engines

I think you are being a little harsh.
I think there is some truth to what she says, there is a little bit of selfishness in the idea that the planet NEEDS my genetic material.

I find this kind of ironic, since I have often heard people with children criticize those who choose not to as "being selfish". As someone who has made such a choice, I don't quite understand how I'm being selfish - how dare I not become a parent.

I was unclear from the article as to what her thoughts were about other people having children, other than the quote above. I wouldn't quite call that accussing parents of crimes against the environment.

My wife and I choose not to have children for a variety of reasons, and one of them was because we didn't see a need for several more humans on the planet.

Actually, the people who really annoy me are those who have had several children and THEN complain about over-population (I know several such people in the environmental community, including a retired professor with several kids and lots of grandkids). People like that are the real hyprocrites.

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One Earth, One Sky - IYA 2009

No different? Can you back that up with historical data?

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"If this were play'd upon a stage now, I could condemn it as an improbable fiction."
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Illuminati's Razor-The most complicatedly evil answer is usually the most correct answer. - Fazor
"Every book is a children's book if the kid can read." - Mitch Hedberg
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Hers is a losing strategy in the evolutionary race. I'm not worried.

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And the "driving on the freeway on a scooter" analogy still holds true because the pilots are sitting in 7 to 30 ton aircraft o' doom and you are running around them in your very own Meatbody, Mark I. Beep, beep.
Trying to make sense of computers, The Error Log.

Why do you assume procreation is all about vanity on the part of the parent?

Yes, well they do suck. The right to procreate is axiomatic. The corollary is the right to not exercise that right.

I would think the quote you pulled pretty definite. She says having children is selfish.

Yes, the chattering classes suck.

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2 good 2 need 4 engines

I may be reading a bit in but it seems like the collory to 'I am not having kids because they damage the planet,' is 'but I am free to damage the planet.' Maybe not free to damage the planet, but at least they dont really seem to place their own effect at the same rating as the effect of the hypothetical child. That is why it seems selfish to me.

I would also say that with all the trendlines in population growth the way they are, overpopulation as an excuse may be just incorrect. Most of us here are young enough that we will see the effect of declining populations on western europe at least. The next generation will prolly live long enough to see the effects on a global scale. There may be a time when not having kids will be looked at the same way having kids is looked at by the article in the OP.

Speculation, speculation. Assuming that what holds true for Western societies holds true for everyone else. And we can't even be sure it'll hold true for us in the long run just yet.

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"If this were play'd upon a stage now, I could condemn it as an improbable fiction."
Shakespeare, Twelfth Night
Illuminati's Razor-The most complicatedly evil answer is usually the most correct answer. - Fazor
"Every book is a children's book if the kid can read." - Mitch Hedberg
"Distance doesn’t matter much in space, where if you just start a thing off with the right kind of shove, sooner or later it will get where you want it to go." -Frederik Pohl, Mining the Oort

I don't think not having kids is selfish. In fact, I think it is far more selfish to have kids but then not give them your full devotion or take proper responsibility for them.

There is a story (can't find it now) about a woman who had 10 children by multiple fathers. She's not prepared to do any work and lives off the Welfare State. Her response to people who criticise her for knocking out chavvies and then expecting the taxpayer to pay for them is that she loves having kids and has the right to have them. She may do, but she has a responsibility for supporting them.

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2 good 2 need 4 engines

(bold mine)

Unsupported statement. It's caused by more people having babies-- no more than that, no less than that. First world economies currently being primarily limited to nations which share a Western cultural background, you can't treat below-replacement childbearing there as a law of physics.

ADDED: I don't really think wanting to do something to make the world better can be described as "misanthropy". Misguided enthusiasm, maybe.

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"If this were play'd upon a stage now, I could condemn it as an improbable fiction."
Shakespeare, Twelfth Night
Illuminati's Razor-The most complicatedly evil answer is usually the most correct answer. - Fazor
"Every book is a children's book if the kid can read." - Mitch Hedberg
"Distance doesn’t matter much in space, where if you just start a thing off with the right kind of shove, sooner or later it will get where you want it to go." -Frederik Pohl, Mining the Oort

Tell that to India.

All the Western technology available that we can throw at them through outsourcing, yet the vast majority of their culture is in an explosive growth mindset.

Medical technology plus rampant breeding equals devastating population boomage.

One point how many billion people?

Large family pressure is only part of the equation. There's still the empowerment of women to consider. Women in Hindu culture have next to nothing.

I have to admit, I wasn't familiar with the term "chattering classes", but wikipedia came to the rescue.

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At night the stars put on a show for free (Carole King)

One Earth, One Sky - IYA 2009

I think you are reading a bit to much into it. The article also talks about other things the woman does for the environment.

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At night the stars put on a show for free (Carole King)

One Earth, One Sky - IYA 2009

And here I was thinking this thread would be about a class of students chattering and bothering their teacher.

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"If you think the LHC will create black holes, you might as well believe Hobbits are at the bottom of your garden."- Dr. Mike Inglis
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Neil Armstrong walked in the Sea of Tranquility
Steve Squyers built Spirit and Opportunity
Dan Haylen upchucked in zero gravity." -Brent Simon, The Space Camp Song

Including herself and husband[s]?...Bet they didn't walk/hike to and fro!

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*

Outbreeding your resources is also a losing evolutionary strategy. For more than just a few individuals.

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"If this were play'd upon a stage now, I could condemn it as an improbable fiction."
Shakespeare, Twelfth Night
Illuminati's Razor-The most complicatedly evil answer is usually the most correct answer. - Fazor
"Every book is a children's book if the kid can read." - Mitch Hedberg
"Distance doesn’t matter much in space, where if you just start a thing off with the right kind of shove, sooner or later it will get where you want it to go." -Frederik Pohl, Mining the Oort