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  #31 (permalink)  
Old 27-March-2008, 05:47 PM
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I disagree, partly. An outpost that was hooked into a network of satellites and tracking stations would be more of a 'watchtower' with weapons. Not so much as a fortress, in the conventional sense. Space itself doesn't really need to be held or defended. It's the home-world, and your resources that are important.
I was thinking more along the lines of a solar-system wide conflict. It wouldn't make sense to put bases on other planet's moons, and the like, simply because the enemy doesn't have to approach your homeworld on the plane of the ecleptic (spelling?). They can come in from above or below the plane and bypass all of your defenses.

I've always had a pretty good mind for Sci-Fi-combat, just was never a good enough writer to make use of it. I suck.
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Old 27-March-2008, 07:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Mister Earl View Post
Granted, IR will let you see a long ways off (I've used them before, little military IR goggles), but you would need a massive IR scope to see a small satellite a long way off. It wouldn't exactly light you up like a beacon at those ranges. Also, there's lots of flotsam up there in orbit these days, and that would cause whoever was looking for you to receive a lot of false positives. Not to mention backround stellar objects! I suppose if we wanted to be truly sneaky, we could stick our launcher in the middle of a debris cloud from a legitimate, earlier launch, so even if it were detected, it may be mistaken for trash.

#EDIT: You also mentioned stellar occultation. That's a risk, too, but there's millions of other objects in near Earth orbit that can cause that, too. Would you have the time/resources to check each one out? I imagine there would be a few hundred a day. That's a lot of junk to investigate.
You just make sure you know the orbits of all legitimate satellites, anything not on that list that gets in range is a target. Simple enough for a computer.
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  #33 (permalink)  
Old 27-March-2008, 07:51 PM
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You just make sure you know the orbits of all legitimate satellites, anything not on that list that gets in range is a target. Simple enough for a computer.
There's tons of orbital debris out there (Others can give you far better figures than I!), and they vastly outnumber legit satellites. Booster rocket casings, metal fragments, parts of explosive bolts, ect. You'd have to scan every return you come across, probably determine its range and guesstimate its size, then determine whether or not it scores high enough to merit investigation. Odds are, with that kind of activity, that scanning satellite would already be tracked, and a spring-launched guiding bomb already merrily headed its way!

Another handful of ideas that occur to me:

Flotsam "rivers". If an enemy on the Earth has only one or a small handful of facilities they can launch from, then it might be feasible to work out what the likeliest trajectory anything they launch will take, and then release junk out in space on an interfering orbit. Like little lead grains, maybe. Release enough to form a tiny ring, and whenever they try to launch anything, you might be lucky enough to have enough small impacts to damage or destroy the vehicle.

Higher tech:

Orbital troop insertion. If you wanted to free-fall from orbit, what would you need? A space suit, obviously. Some mechanism to slow you down enough for the atmosphere to grab you and slow you down further, and some kind of one-man shielding that would allow you to survive reentry. Maybe something like an egg cut in half. It'd be quite cool on the reverse side of the shield, and if you used a vaguely shuttle-cock type shape, it'd keep you oriented correctly. Once you slow down enough to free-fall without it, you can simply unstrap yourself and spin away from it. Maybe ride it all the way down, if it's slightly bigger and you strap equipment into it. I can see the benefit of having a spec-ops type group deployable anywhere in the world within minutes, but the detriments as well. Keep them up there or launch ahead of time? Rotating crew? Supply problems. Logistical. Health problems (bone degridation)
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  #34 (permalink)  
Old 27-March-2008, 08:00 PM
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Orbital troop insertion. If you wanted to free-fall from orbit, what would you need?
I don't like the notion of anything unmanned for that. I would much prefer shuttles of various types.

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It wouldn't make sense to put bases on other planet's moons, and the like, simply because the enemy doesn't have to approach your home-world on the plane of the ecleptic (spelling?). They can come in from above or below the plane and bypass all of your defenses.
True. But one has to consider that only a perfect idyllic universe would allow you to have infinite resources. Look how long it's taken us humans to put up some satellites and a couple workable stations around Earth.

If a planet had 20 times our resources, they'd still have a much larger area to cover, monitor, and defend...mayeb 1 1/2 LY, from one side of their solar system to another.

So a spherical network of satellites and watchtowers, covering 100% of the territory isn't necessarily feasible, even if you had directed-energy weapons and FTL. You'd need tech and resources that would approach the ridiculous.

Best bet is to build concentric arcs of defenses, and permit only designated corridors for commercial traffic. You'll have to take your chances that nobody wanders in - friend foe foe - into the restricted areas.

You're simply never gonna make it 100% effective. Someone will design a countermeasure that will foil it.

Just create a system that you can shape to fit your needs.
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  #35 (permalink)  
Old 27-March-2008, 08:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Mister Earl View Post
There's tons of orbital debris out there (Others can give you far better figures than I!), and they vastly outnumber legit satellites. Booster rocket casings, metal fragments, parts of explosive bolts, ect. You'd have to scan every return you come across, probably determine its range and guesstimate its size, then determine whether or not it scores high enough to merit investigation. Odds are, with that kind of activity, that scanning satellite would already be tracked, and a spring-launched guiding bomb already merrily headed its way!
And the bomb is just another object to be tracked.

"Investigation" isn't needed, only speed and distance need to be known. It requires only enough information to determine what's near and what's far, and what's approaching. A laser broom need not be precise, only powerful, as it can sweep (no pun intended) ove a given swath of space hundreds of times per second.
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  #36 (permalink)  
Old 27-March-2008, 10:31 PM
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And the bomb is just another object to be tracked.

"Investigation" isn't needed, only speed and distance need to be known. It requires only enough information to determine what's near and what's far, and what's approaching. A laser broom need not be precise, only powerful, as it can sweep (no pun intended) over a given swath of space hundreds of times per second.
The bomb itself wouldn't be on a path to intercept the target. Only when it gets near enough would it ignite engines and alter trajectory to intercept. First it would creep into range. I know we "track" space debris today, but only of pieces over a certain size, and even then I'm pretty sure it's just checked in on once a day or so. It's not like sonar/radar with constant sweeps. There's just too much up there to monitor every piece every minute. Even *if* a system was designed and built for that, it's a simple matter to chaff the hell out of the common orbit lanes, so suddenly there are billions of false returns. Insert launcher, and Bob's your uncle.
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  #37 (permalink)  
Old 27-March-2008, 10:54 PM
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The bomb itself wouldn't be on a path to intercept the target. Only when it gets near enough would it ignite engines and alter trajectory to intercept. First it would creep into range. I know we "track" space debris today, but only of pieces over a certain size, and even then I'm pretty sure it's just checked in on once a day or so. It's not like sonar/radar with constant sweeps. There's just too much up there to monitor every piece every minute. Even *if* a system was designed and built for that, it's a simple matter to chaff the hell out of the common orbit lanes, so suddenly there are billions of false returns. Insert launcher, and Bob's your uncle.
Approaching is approaching. And no rocket can beat lightspeed.

As I said, a laser broom doesn't need specific targets. One, ten, or ten billion, it can cover areas of space, not specific objects or points. Anything in line-of-sight can be hit.

So apparently Bob's no relation at all.
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  #38 (permalink)  
Old 28-March-2008, 08:44 PM
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Gemini's drawing would be good for war on the Moon, but anything that is launched from Earth needs to be aerodynamic.


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Approaching is approaching. And no rocket can beat lightspeed.

Unless of course, you have the rocket going at light speed.
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  #39 (permalink)  
Old 29-March-2008, 03:04 AM
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Unless of course, you have the rocket going at light speed.
Yeah, I'll worry about that when it happens.
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"Distance doesn’t matter much in space, where if you just start a thing off with the right kind of shove, sooner or later it will get where you want it to go." -Frederik Pohl, Mining the Oort
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  #40 (permalink)  
Old 30-March-2008, 12:18 AM
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Well, perhaps if you built a giant wooden space badger......
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  #41 (permalink)  
Old 30-March-2008, 05:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Mister Earl View Post
Flotsam "rivers". If an enemy on the Earth has only one or a small handful of facilities they can launch from, then it might be feasible to work out what the likeliest trajectory anything they launch will take, and then release junk out in space on an interfering orbit. Like little lead grains, maybe. Release enough to form a tiny ring, and whenever they try to launch anything, you might be lucky enough to have enough small impacts to damage or destroy the vehicle.
Already covered in the FOR REAL: Space Combat thread. In fact, I was the one who suggested it. It was pointed out to me that several thousand tons of debris, at least, would be needed to cover an orbital path.
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Illuminati's Razor-The most complicatedly evil answer is usually the most correct answer. - Fazor
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"Distance doesn’t matter much in space, where if you just start a thing off with the right kind of shove, sooner or later it will get where you want it to go." -Frederik Pohl, Mining the Oort
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  #42 (permalink)  
Old 03-April-2008, 09:16 AM
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I can see a space fighter being used in an alternate future in which the cold war extended to space and got hot at one point after skimming Second Variety. I can see a massive effort to colonize the Moon to defeat the Soviets. As history has showed us, the Soviets were more interested in LEO space stations than the Moon, so, you get a large number of Soviet space stations and a few American lunar colonies. Now, in the event of war, the USAF will have to take out those Soviet space stations to protect America's lunar presence and stop any Soviet attempts at a lunar presence. They will have to launch from Earth, enter LEO and engage the Soviet Space stations despite Soviet defenses etc. They will be used in a one time attack, as most likely, the bases in which they launched from no longer exist.

BTW, given American and Soviet styles of warfare, an American craft will have one weapon that is accurate, whereas the Soviets may have many weapons that aren't as accurate, but as effective. Why punch once when you can punch twice?
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  #43 (permalink)  
Old 21-July-2008, 08:58 PM
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Nice drawings
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